Magic Systems?? In my MU*??

[Testament]

So last week, I finally decided to really try and hunker down looking at an option for FS3 for Seven Nations as I run the game in Ares. I love Ares and FS3, and were it not for the system, I wouldn’t have a game. That being said, because Seven Nations is high fantasy that take a lot of inspiration from 5th ed DnD, it doesn’t really work all that well. And eventually I ran into a wall in trying to make it work.

And by ‘making it work’, I really mean treating that like a TT group. Skills rolls and then I do some rolling in my own window to figure out combat. Which means I’m doing the majority of math on another screen. This isn’t all that conducive, as people other than me are now running staff-events or players doing PVPs.

I’ve been looking at the plugins on the Ares main site, and mulling over my options and which one might work the best. I think the plugin option is great, by the way, it reminds me of modding Skyrim in a way. Currently there’s only three viable options.

FFG system
FATE system
Generic RPG system

My main question is, if you had to implement a magic system, would be some suggestions in getting it to work? I understand there’s a way to make FS3 work…kind of. I’ve seen other games do it, but a lot of that has to do with balancing enemy NPC damage/mitigation/armor/health and the kind of damage that PCs can do with weapons, the mitigation with their own armor. And that’s not even going into how it doesn’t really allow anything but a very specific kind of buffs.

I suppose I’m just looking for some advice on the best route to go with all of this. I can write theme and lore all day long, but every time I try to run mock combat, it’s almost always lopsided in one way or another. It doesn’t feel balanced. So I’m wondering if I should just another system that might work better for what I’m looking to do.

[KarmaBum]

@Testament said in Magic Systems?? In my MU*??:

My main question is, if you had to implement a magic system, would be some suggestions in getting it to work?

If you’re not someone who can write your own code or system like @Tat? I would recommend picking your system first, and building your magic off of its capability.

E.g., if you plan to use FS3 (even though that’s a terrible idea), you can easily add in buffs and revives as spells, but fireballs and lightning bolts are going to be a bigger reach.

[Faraday]

@KarmaBum said in Magic Systems?? In my MU*??:

E.g., if you plan to use FS3 (even though that’s a terrible idea), you can easily add in buffs and revives as spells, but fireballs and lightning bolts are going to be a bigger reach.

Agreed. FS3 is not designed for magic systems. Like OP said, you can kinda kludge it in I guess, but it’s going to be really tough to balance, and some things are just going to have to fall outside the system and be handled manually.

(Unless of course you’re willing to invest the year+ of effort and massive custom coding involved in a system like Tat’s. Even there, the SL magic system was very grounded and designed around what FS3 could do; it wasn’t trying to bend FS3 to an established theme.)

The Generic RPG plugin is obviously the most flexible because you can do anything, but all you get is dice so it’s very GM-intensive. Same with the freeform Traits plugin.

Fate doesn’t really come with spells or anything, nor does FFG. I guess you could adapt stunts and talents maybe? But mostly you’re just getting sheets and a die roller.

[sixregrets]

Perhaps a hot take from a relative newbie, but I don’t think a detailed magic (or combat, really) system is really ideal for a MUSH. If you want to implement all sorts of fun code toys, there are other game types better suited to that than a MUSH. I love Ares as a game platform, but I feel like FS3 already stretches the limit of what combat should be in a MUSH.

If you have to start worrying about different spell types, weapon types, etc, for anything other than specific plot reasons, maybe what you actually want to run is an RP MUD?

[Faraday]

@sixregrets said in Magic Systems?? In my MU*??:

FS3 already stretches the limit of what combat should be in a MUSH.

I feel obliged to note that the FS3 combat module is optional - it’s designed for Battlestar MUSHes where giant combat scenes happen with relative frequency and my sanity required a way to resolve them expediently. On my Western game we’d often just handle combat with a few GMed die rolls.

That aside, I agree with your general point that the more code-heavy systems don’t always mesh well with MUSHes, and immersive systems play even more poorly on Ares. Games like Spirit Lake and the BSG series show that it can conceivably work depending on what you’re looking for, though.

[icanbeyourmuse]

I think magic and combat systems are fine for MUSHs. It all comes down to making it clear that the systems don’t /have/ to be used for RP (outside needs in plot things). Having combat/magic/social systems can give people stuff to do in down time on games. Or putting in mini-games that could give them something to do (a deck of cards, a coin to flip, etc). I /like/ having things to do in times I don’t want to RP or when no one is around.

It all comes down to if you prioritize code over RP or not. MUDS put code first, from what I can tell. Arx (and Firan too, despite all the things wrong with it) are a good example of a go-between for muds and mushes. Both made/make it clear that RP takes priority over code stuff. Both have a ton of code but except for certain things I haven’t seen staff (not counting certain things on Firan) be like ‘You can do ANYTHING without using code first.’. Arx is really good about making it clear they focus on RP despite all their systems.

[Mourne]

The key thing about magic systems is making sure they are as balanced (or not) as you want them to be, and that the documentation is accessible to all so that nobody is getting the wool pulled over their head.

In some cases Magic is by it’s very nature not balanced at all, and then you have to worry about wether or not you need to restrict it, or just assume that all PC’s are capable of it due to being special, as they are PC’s, or how you’re going to piss off the have nots.

It really is something that needs to be baked in at the ground level so that the system is accounting for it.

My three cents.