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Witcher MUSH Design
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@Istus You have a great attitude, and whatever systems you decide on, that levelheadedness and graciousness will serve you invaluably.
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I am with Pavel. Dip your toes into various games that catch your eye. It can help you get perspective on what people experience.
I am also all for you doing what you think is right for the game you want to make. Everything we say here are opinions and 20+ years experience. A lot of us are probably pretty jaded and wary of things.
My thought is to build your game like you expect lots (because games explode at times) but plot your stories with the thought you are going to have 5 people with wiggle room to expand the stories to more.
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@icanbeyourmuse said in Witcher MUSH Design:
I am also all for you doing what you think is right for the game you want to make.
Agreed. Additionally, it’d be easier to get advice if you make something that people can interact with or take apart and look at rather than react to ideas.
Thus far, we’ve been presented with some thoughts, but we don’t know how they all interconnect or why you want to do things the way you do or what it’s going to look like once it’s out of your head and onto a game.
ETA: Oh! Make the game for you rather than for an audience. You have to run it, so it’s important that you like the game. Even if nobody plays it, you’ve still made something and that’s more than most folk do.
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Biggest suggestion?
Before one makes a game, play lots of them.Eh.
Not everyone wants to play lots of games, and it’s not a prereq for running a good one.
What IS a prereq, in my opinion, is to think carefully about what you’re doing and why, to consider the consequences, and to talk through them with someone who will serve as a real sounding board and not an echo chamber.
‘What you’re doing’ encompasses a lot of things, from the xp you give out to the PCs you focus on to the story you run. I’ve seen a lot of games open that seem to have spent a lot of time on some aspects, but not others. Sometimes these games seem to figure it out midflow - nothing’s written in stone, you can learn and course-correct as you go - and sometimes they don’t.
@Istus , you’re already doing a lot of listening and thinking. Just keep doing it, and maybe find folks who are interested in the same kind of game you want to run to really hash out the details with. You might end up with something cool.
Experience helps, but man. If you want to build a game now, with what you’ve got, go for it. If we didn’t do this, no one would ever build games.
Make mistakes. Try new things. Learn from them. Talk about what happened and why with players you trust. Course correct. Try again. Keep listening.
You will never, ever build a game without mistakes that you’ll fix ‘next time’. You just do the best you can, every time.
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@Tat said in Witcher MUSH Design:
You will never, ever build a game without mistakes that you’ll fix ‘next time’. You just do the best you can, every time.
Seriously this. I’ve been running games for ages and I still feel like the line from Jurassic Park 2:
Hammond: “Don’t worry, I’m not making the same mistake twice!”
Ian: “No, you’re making all new ones!” -
I have everything I need to get to a functioning alpha now. Everything else will just have to come out in the wash.
The goal has always been to create somewhere I want to play, to avoid the problems I have experienced elsewhere, and to be in a position to create new features and fix problems as they arise. Hopefully someone else will decide that they want to put some effort in to participating as well.
If it does not work out at the very least I can take the experience and the framework, refine it, and give it another crack in the future.
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@Roz said in Witcher MUSH Design:
I often see people talk about it in a way that feels like there’s a weird annoyance that someone who is less active than they are, or someone who they don’t see RPing, should be getting any XP. Like – not talking about you specifically here, but I’ve seen people talk about this with what seems like an actual layer of offense at this idea.
Huh. I never hear that complaint first-hand. Complaints that someone who only shows up for ST’d events is getting the reward of major plot roles and ST attention while frequently present and active players get sidelined – I do see hear those, and see them get erroneously reframed as being about XP or about wanting to make everybody grind.
I quite liked the flat-rate XP regardless of if you log in, with the addition of the +vote regulated karma/luck/whatever points that you can use for rerolls or dramatic boosts.
'You ride the mechanical bull, you do not fight it.'
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@Gashlycrumb said in Witcher MUSH Design:
@Roz said in Witcher MUSH Design:
I often see people talk about it in a way that feels like there’s a weird annoyance that someone who is less active than they are, or someone who they don’t see RPing, should be getting any XP. Like – not talking about you specifically here, but I’ve seen people talk about this with what seems like an actual layer of offense at this idea.
Huh. I never hear that complaint first-hand.
I mean, I was reading it in this thread, including in the thing I was directly replying to and another post earlier talking about folks getting XP for idling or some-such.
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@Roz said in Witcher MUSH Design:
I honestly don’t understand the objection to systems like this. I often see people talk about it in a way that feels like there’s a weird annoyance that someone who is less active than they are, or someone who they don’t see RPing, should be getting any XP. Like – not talking about you specifically here, but I’ve seen people talk about this with what seems like an actual layer of offense at this idea.
I think the core of the issue is that some games treat XP as IC and others treat it as OOC. This isn’t just true in MUSHes but also in video games and TTRPGs. There are just two competing philosophies. If you subscribe to it being IC, it’s going to seem unfair if someone gets more XP just for playing more. If you subscribe to it being OOC, it’s going to seem unfair if someone gets the same amount for doing less.
The key IMHO is to make it clear which one your game subscribes to and just ignore the haters. In FS3, it’s IC. Luck points are the OOC reward. But there are plenty of games out there that reward XP for OOC things and use it as a carrot for players to engage in desired behaviors. They’re not wrong, just different.
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@Roz Doh, I get you. I took them more as ‘what ifs’ than actual gripes.
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@Faraday said in Witcher MUSH Design:
The key IMHO is to make it clear which one your game subscribes to and just ignore the haters.
This is a good rule for just about any aspect of game design.
Add in that it’s okay to change your mind about this stuff too, even mid-run. People will complain, but as long as things are clear and nobody gets rug-pulled, they’ll just enjoy complaining and roll along fine.
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We had a discussion about XP and particularly styles of even progression pretty recently. You may want to take a look there for many different perspectives.
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@Faraday said in Witcher MUSH Design:
just ignore the haters
That’s basically my advice for life.
So long as you’re not actively hurting yourself or others, obviously.
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Just to throw a dissenting opinion into the ring: you don’t have to play on a bunch of games to make your own game. You don’t even have to play on a bunch of games to make a ‘successful’ game. Apostate had played I think one RPI and 1.5 mushes before he made Arx.
Don’t get disheartened! Making stuff is a good in and of itself.
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@shit-piss-love This was good to look at.
Further refining my ideas on character advancement, I have the following items in mind:
- I am building my system with the idea that it will take a year for the first character to hit maximum power. I suspect that very few people will actually get to this point.
- Mechanical power gain will be non-linear with most of your advancement happening in the beginning of your character’s career and tapering off as things get to the end. For example, the last six months may actually only represent a power delta of 25% versus someone making the exact same specialization choices.
- New players will only require half the time to get to the point of the player with the highest level of experience.
- The ‘advantage’ that comes with being around longer than someone else is reputation you earn through social interactions and the opportunity to acquire ‘stuff’.
- XP earned beyond the cap will be converted to a currency for fun things like custom item descs, recolors, or whatever cosmetic nonsense. It’s a little mobile game-y but no mechanical advantage will be had.
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@Istus said in Witcher MUSH Design:
I am building my system with the idea that it will take a year for the first character to hit maximum power. I suspect that very few people will actually get to this point.
I’m curious what makes you think this. I think a lot of people play characters for longer than a year.
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@Tat said in Witcher MUSH Design:
I think a lot of people play characters for longer than a year.
So, so many.
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Five years is probably a better timeline. If the game lasts that long, if it’s not a goal you want everyone to get to, I’d go 5 years. If you plot the growth curve out on a 3 year bar, you’ll probably see a significant number of people, but maybe not the majority. One year, you’ll definitely see more people making it than not. Game life dependent, of course.
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Curiously, is this more planned to be a MUD, MUSH, MU*, or something else?
It seemed to get described as one thing, but the layout and plans looked like another so wanted to check before excitement levels.
Current Projects:
Twitch -> https://www.twitch.tv/dukewhisky
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@Whisky I probably should not have attached a label to it. I don’t think I truly understand the nuance between the various flavours. I’ll do my best to describe the end goal.
It is not a MUD. It may feel like that since my focus on chatter here has been on mechanical elements. That is only because that is where my current interest lies.
What I am shooting for is a storytelling platform with TTRPG elements. I do not expect, nor wish to encourage, a roll with every pose. When you roll against someone the result is not automatically applied. There is no enforced social or combat cadence such as turn order. There aren’t NPCs running around to whack at.
I personally like ‘stuff’ and I like acquiring abilities or whatever. I also like writing flowery nonsense as if I was authoring a novel. I am attempting to combine these in a reasonably cohesive way with a slant towards favoring narrative over rote execution of a system.
Theme-wise, I want to focus on city life and its outskirts with pressures coming from an on-going war, organized banditry, a powerful religious faction, and the aristocracy. Of course there is room for ‘monster of the week’ type stuff as well.
A little fluff piece I’ve been fussing with:
Novigrad, a city of wealth, power, and decadence, is a place of contrasts and conflict. With its towering spires, grand structures, and bustling streets, it is a hub of commerce and politics, where powerful factions vie for control. The church, with its imposing cathedral and army of fanatical faithful, holds a great deal of power, seeking to impose its will on the masses through holy doctrine and the threat of excommunication. Meanwhile, the criminal underworld, embodied by the powerful King of Beggars and his network of thieves and assassins, operates in the shadows, manipulating the city’s commerce and politics to suit their own ends. The rich merchants and powerful nobility hold court in the city’s many taverns and palaces, vying for influence and wealth, while outside the walls, the common folk struggle to survive. The air is thick with the scent of intrigue and the sound of clashing steel, as the different factions jostle for position and advantage. Amidst all of this, witchers, sorcerers, and other outcasts roam the city’s streets, surviving by their wits and the edge of their blades, always searching for the next job that will keep them fed and clothed. Such is the city of Novigrad, where the strong rule, the weak suffer, and only the cunning survive.
It’s a little puffed up but I’ll pare it down eventually.
