@64bitjedi I think you’ve been pretty mild-mannered given the coal-raking. It’s hard to be in your spot, and I can appreciate that, and I can respect that you came here to face the music in a townsquare format, not because I think that’s such a highly respectable thing to do: I think it’s the bare minimum, but you seem to be the only Staffer from your game to do that.

I can also appreciate that you have a tangible investment of real labor hours in this game, an emotional connection to it, and a vested interest in the community. Most of the people on this board don’t, and so it’s effortless and quarrelless to dismiss the entire thing as unsalvageably bad without having to contemplate all the good times you’ve likely had there.

I have no doubt that Staffers who clearly have known the whole time that they were acting in bad faith went to extraordinary lengths to keep their bad behavior and problematic incidents from you; as a coder, giving you as few reasons to get involved in anything but coding is in Cujo’s best interest.

When I hear terms like “investigation” in reference to something like this, an online game, I don’t know, that just makes me laugh. You’ve read this thread, and as kept-in-the-coder-dark as you might have been, you know the vibe of your own game. You know the character of the people that you co-staff with. Either you believe the claims of egregious, absofuckinglutely untenable harassment and abuse of power, or you don’t.

So let’s assume that you do believe them, because I’ve never seen this many claims about someone who was innocent, like ever, ever, ever, so let’s assume that you do: now what?

Do you have the authority to get rid of Hadrix? To disempower him from a Staff bit? To ban him from the game? If you had that authority, would you use it? I’m willing to bet that if Cujo is headwiz, you can’t get rid of him.

This is where we’re stuck. From the longevity and pattern of behavior described on this thread, I don’t see much chance for a rehabilitation of Cujo or Hadrix’s behavior. Any changes will be short-lived, and why shouldn’t they be? They’ll have gotten away with it. They say a few contrite words, hush up on Public for a couple of days, or weeks, and it all blows over.

Your players, the people here, folks are telling you that doesn’t cut the mustard.

Continuing to support Hadrix or Cujo in any way, and I believe that includes continuing to provide support for a game in which they have not been punished or disempowered, as good as your intentions are and as good as you say your intentions are, that makes you an enabler. And that’s what I think some other folks are trying to tell you, and frankly, I agree.

fuck cancer

I don’t think the issue of sexual harassment in MU* treads any new ground, and I think you’re absolutely right that cool-headed third party brain needs to chill out when that’s the issue on the docket.

Demanding receipts is problematic for lots of reasons, not the least of which is that it’s hard for me to think of a woman, any woman that I know, who hasn’t been in a conversation they were fine with that suddenly took a turn. YOU KNOW. A TURN. And I’m sure this happens to men, to non-binary individuals, and to folks of all identities, but I can only speak from my perspective.

If I’m in that situation (I have been), then now in order to prove to Random Cool-Headed Third Party that I’ve been harassed, or that this person is a danger, I have to show the four pages of kinda steamy texts that were fine with me before the Alleged Creepazoid got weird as hell.

Yay, that’s so fun for me, people will definitely NOT call me a slut or act like I deserved it, or shame me in any way. This never happens. Thanks so much, RC-HTP! You really helped. Wew. Not it.

I’m staring at the Discord server for a game where something Sort Of Gross happened. It happened once, and then there was a weird reference weeks later in an OOC conversation that made me think of it again, and I think to myself, “I should really mention this. That was weird. Weird as fuck.”

I know I’ll get asked for logs. I know I’ll get grilled over the conversation before and after, which I just don’t really remember that well. I’m sure my machine logged it, it logs everything, but do I really want to dig it up, and hand it over, so some strangers I don’t know can pick apart everything that I might have done? This person is more well-established in the game than I am, more interconnected into the community.

Knowing all of that, the whole situation screams Why Bother, and I feel kind of disappointed knowing that this dude will probably make someone else feel kind of weird. Explosively harassed or violated? No, nothing like that. But explosively harassed or violated isn’t what it takes to turn someone off from a game. Sometimes all it takes is someone making you feel kind of weird, and people who are not tightly ingrained in the community and who might not have someone to turn to and say word about it, they might just leave instead of hanging around and dealing with it.

one of my little idiots. my swaggletooth underbite champion. I’d murder for her, I wouldn’t even hesitate.

not to shitpost but can we get that talking fedora back in here, I want to hear the latest hot take on how this is reasonable.

@helvetica said in JKER Temporarily Banned Discussion Thread:

Listen, Darkest Timeline @Pax

I will only be responding to Darkest Timeline Pax henceforth tyvm.

being more interested in a game than a game is in you. that’s all. that’s the peeve.

If I set, and you don’t say shit, greet, or even notice my character in your first pose, take off your coat because we’re fighting.

@GF I don’t have any advice. This is above my paygrade. I’m not a therapist or even an expert at human-ing. But when I have been in similar situations as the one you’re describing, I find myself pulling away, because when I did not do that, when I allowed myself to become a support for that person who was showing me those red flags, they become very clingy and expectant of my time and my emotional labor, and that was not a sustainable balance for me. I wish you the best, it’s a tough situation.

IDK a lot about the wet mop in question, but what bums me out is how challenging it is to balance the “assume positive intentions” mindset that makes RPing with folks over the internet a lot smoother against the absolutely legitimate concern-edging-paranoia that the person you’re talking to is actually a corrosive manipulator, gaslighter, and abuser who is just waiting for their moment.

Sometimes that shit just takes a lot of spoons, man.

@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:

If the reason for the attack is lame

There was so much drivel that I ghosted right past this but jesus christ it’s a hell of a thing to double down, triple down after someone has politely asked you “hey can you don’t?” and admin has already had to use the mod voice.

Honestly, guy, leap into the sun.

@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:

• Finally, and most importantly, don’t give a fuck about people’s feelings. Don’t punish people for telling dirty jokes or saying things that are offensive on the non-public com channels or in pages.

All the things you mentioned already exist but this is really where you tell on yourself. You’re not a visionary, guy, you’re just an edgelord.

@RedRocket said in AI PBs:

@Faraday said in AI PBs:

We’re talking about an “intelligent” … tool

That’s where you’re wrong. It isn’t intelligence. That’s why I linked the video that explains how A.I. works. It is no more intelligent or capable of free will than any pocket calculator. It’s a very complex series of pass or fail checks that have become robust enough to give the appearance of intelligence but it has no will, no motivation, no real intelligence. That’s why image generation can have such freaky errors. It has no actual concept of what body parts are attached where or what any of the context of your prompts mean. It’s just taking a bunch of random noise and reducing that noise in a pattern which is likely to be similar to other patterns that it has seen before.

It’s not aware at all, at least, not yet. Once we get true A.I. then you can start making the arguments you are making now with some legitimacy but with the way it functions right now, it’s still just a very fancy pencil.

This analogy only works if the pencil is made of stolen materials.

@RedRocket Even the most longstanding PVP-heavy MUDs will have 12 people logged in (often less) unless it’s a peak time. The mediums have changed and that doesn’t have anything to do with PVP versus PVE.

But you haven’t answered my question. What are the frameworks of bad ideas? Is it just PVE > PVP, is that your hangup? You carry on like there’s a long list of sins that gamerunners are committing but it just seems to boil down to “not enough PVP, bad”.

@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:

I literally just wrote a small essay about how I don’t care if they do it “my way” or not. I just want them to consider that what hey have been doing isn’t working and try anything actually different instead of just hanging a new theme or setting on the same frame work full of bad ideas that have failed for decades.

I don’t understand what these “frameworks full of bad ideas” are. Is it just… PVE over PVP? Is that the “bad ideas”?

If enough people want to play something, generally a few of them will get together and prop the thing up. If there’s a lack of hardcore, rawdog PVP games out there, I think what you’re seeing is a reflection of evolving preference.

If PVE games were the obvious doomed failures you make them out to be, they wouldn’t be the bulk of what people are running and playing nowadays.

And if you just absolutely hate that, which you seem to, then as other people have pointed out, you have every tool and resource at your disposal to create something different. And if you can’t be arsed to do that and you’re just going to keep on keepin’ on about how everything is terrible and bad, then my brother in crisis, that truly sounds like a you problem.

@RedRocket I would rather play in a ghost town of a game, or not even play at all, than have to share space with people who crash out like you have. Your temper tantrum and sneering vitriol over people liking different things than you does nothing to help the case for PVP games. Quite the reverse.

So if you see nothing of value in the current MUSH community, might I be the first to invite you to keep on walking until you hit something else. Maybe try pickleball.

@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:

@Pax

Lame is not a slur when it is used to describe a thing, only when it is used to describe a person.

It’s a synonym for disappointing, weak or unsatisfying that has been used for most of human history dating back to the early Germanic tribes that first used it to describe an animal with a non-functional of overly weak leg. You would put down your horse because it had a lame leg and couldn’t plow a field anymore.

It’s only considered a slur if you say a person is lame because you are advocating for them to be killed.

I’m very clearly not advocating for the murder of the people who run boring games.

The people who have willingly engaged in extended discourse with you should get a medal.

@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:

It’s lame.

Let’s not use ableist language.

@Perfect-Paz How empty and boring is your life that this is what you derive joy from?

You’ve made it clear you profoundly disagree with everything that’s going on here: copy. We get it. Your vitriol isn’t welcome, you can go about your business, and in your position, 99% of people would.

But not you. You’re special. You’re going to bide your time and wait, and make a new profile for the express purpose of telling us how unbothered and above it all you are. Well done, mate. You really showed us.

If the forum is slow and the hobby is in atrophy, that’s not half, not a quarter, not an iota as pathetic as you lingering in the wings, salivating over every response with the intensity of a thousand unpaid therapy bills and dreaming of all the ways you think you’re cooler than us.

You’re a loser, mate. Flat out, you’re a fucking loser. You came here to try to talk down to people you don’t like because, I don’t know, they don’t hate trans people? And you just proved exactly why we’re all better off without anyone like you anywhere near us. We’re happy you don’t like us. I’m fucking thrilled. I don’t want to play on a game with you, I would rather play with 9 people who are nothing like you than 100 with the offchance that you’re one of them. That is easy, easy calculus, my soft-skulled dude.

Screenshot this and take it back to your cave of troglodytes where you can all have a good chuckle about how you pwned the gay commies, then maybe go have a shower and wipe the fungal crust off of your ass, you gang of mushrooms.

@CuriousGamer Until OP is willing to answer any question at all, the preponderance of evidence suggests this is more abusive fuckery, so leaving it or not leaving it becomes symbolic.

Either we’re okay with letting people use the forum to perpetuate more abuse because we want to be hands-off, or we’re going to draw the line somewhere and kick some shit out and yes, it will require judgment calls. I trust the admin to make those judgment calls in good faith, I trust the community to hold them accountable.