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The Stupid Things We Do
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@Herja Boy howdy, that’s an important lesson to learn in this hobby. And I say that as someone who has definitely formed incredibly real and lasting friendships in the hobby, but overall I tend to be a bit protective of my off-game contact info and such. I actually don’t find this as depressing as @glitch is in his message, other than the fact that it’s super shitty for people to actively lie and manipulate others, of course. But I actually don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to realize that a lot of MU* connections are transitory by nature, that they tend to come and go even when it’s not people being actively shady. And I think it’s healthy to approach things from that perspective (and will also help somewhat in mitigating the more active shittiness you describe).
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@Roz I’m usually the transitory one more often than not, so that wasn’t really an issue for me. More so an expectation of transactional.
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@Herja I’m certain that this wasn’t your intent, but this does make me feel more hesitant than I would have been, say, a week or a year or whatever ago to reach out. Not because I thought we were great friends or anything, but rather because the reason I already tend to sit in my corner and hope something comes my way because I don’t want to feel like I’m impositioning people by asking for their time/interest/etc. Like, I’m not telling you “you’ve hurt me, how dare you, this changes everything” but I do feel like “well, if I’m just a customer, I should probably just keep sitting down and being quiet.”
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@glitch My post isn’t coming from a place of bitterness or even thinking poorly of people who treat MU ‘relationships’ as transactional. Even in what you describe, there is some sort of transactional basis to me because you prioritized your own fun and enjoyment over whatever fun or enjoyment the people playing with you were having, which I think is entirely okay and normal.
A lot of my realization was that I was the problem in some of these situations by expecting that everyone was like me and willing to put others fun before self and then feeling crushed when said person was obviously not as invested in me as I was in them. I was the problem there. Not them. In the case of people who manipulated and lied to me to keep me around, I lay the blame mostly on them but a little on me for being way too open to being taken advantage of in that way.
It took being in a situation where I was on the other side of that equation as the one who didn’t see the other as a friend but just someone I was GMing for and then having their expectations blow up and being embroiled in drama over it and feeling fucking terrible about it because hurting people, even when I didn’t mean to, sucks. That was my realization that investing too much didn’t just hurt me but was wildly unfair to people I placed this unspoken expectation of friendship reciprocation. I feel a lot better about this hobby now and get involved in waaaaaaay less emotional drama and turmoil because most of my MU friendships are fairly superficial and focused more on the game than on building a personal connection. And I find that I am really good with that. I am open to forming those connections but I no longer do all the work to create them and tend to be a bit standoffish which means someone kind of has to work for it now where before I was just wearing my heart on my sleeve for a long time and wondering why it kept getting fucked up.
lol lmao
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@tieflinguist I’m sorry that you feel that way but it wasn’t my intention to discourage anyone from reaching out if they want to since I don’t think I have ever been discouraging of it? It is safe to say that if I am logged in to a game, I am fine with talking to others. If I don’t feel like interacting, I just don’t log on. Having boundaries is healthy and if mine mean that you feel more reluctant to speak to me about game-related things because I am open about them, I’m not really sure what I am supposed to do about that. Saying that I only view anyone as a ‘customer’ is kind of fucked up and guilt trippy though.
lol lmao
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Beyond the regular stupid things. I suspect the biggest stupid thing I did was staying around in a really toxic staffing situation on a pretty toxic game (and I’ve done this twice, but like, in a big way the second time) due to a belief things will improve, or people might get better etc.
I’ve, in general, learnt that once people really show you who they are. When they insist that is who they are, through their repeated actions, you should just bloody well believe them.
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Most MU* connections are, in fact, transactional, and I don’t think that’s at all a bad thing. We’re people in a shared hobby who are just engaging in shared fun. When we go out to seek RP, it is to find fun for ourselves. Real and lasting friendships can be formed, like from any social hobby, but the default is transactional, I think.
I think Herja is very right that placing oversized expectations on others beyond this is will end up in the sort of hurt she describes. So I’m glad she learned to adjust how she engages in a way that’s better for her mental health, because I know from experience that can be a hard adjustment.
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@Herja I apologize for my phrasing there, because my intent wasn’t to guilt trip you. Rather, just that as someone who has a character that’s currently reliant on you for the majority of her meta-whatever-hooks that can actually be acted upon, I already feel like I’m taking-taking-taking and that there’s not really a lot I can do to like, give back other than saying “thank you” – but then inevitably needing to ask for more. Like, I don’t really know what, if anything, can be done about that feeling because it really is just me feeling bad about not being able to bring much to the transactional side of things – I can take a lot from you and give back enthusiasm, which feels like I’m coming to you, taking stuff (and time, and energy) and paying for it by getting excited to take more stuff.
Maybe this isn’t how you see it – it doesn’t seem to be – but it’s a self-sabotaging feeling that I don’t really seem to have much choice with, as to when it comes and how long it sticks around.
Which, you know, The Stupid Things We Do on MU*s.
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@Herja A lot of interactions could probably be reduced to transactional in nature depending on how you look at it, but I get what you’re saying. And I didn’t mean my commentary as any sort of judgment, just something that garnered a reaction from me. It also seems my comment may have jumped the cart off the tracks into places I didn’t intend. I did not mean it as a reflection on how I would approach you specifically, but just more generally a thought on what it meant to approach things with more experience leading to a tighter rein on self.
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Creating story is cooperative. Your GM wants to create story. That’s why they’re there. There are few things more satisfying for me as a GM than when players engage with shit I’ve made for them, except maybe when they try really hard to date my NPC.
I feel like it’s super common to feel self-conscious when you have “too much” story and to feel left out when you have “not enough” story, but a lot of that is stuff we do to ourselves as players. All I can say is that it really can’t be the storyteller’s responsibility to manage my anxiety about engaging with story, that’s gotta be my job.
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@tieflinguist But as staff, the only expectation I have of you is to be respectful of staff, your fellow players, and yourself. You don’t need to DO anything in that case because when I agreed to be staff, I chose it because I wanted to create story and be in that position with no expectation that I get anything from it other than others having fun. My fun is in being in that role and creating stories. I am chasing my fun and I expect any player I GM for to chase their own fun. If you find what I do isn’t fun, then I expect you to tell me and we either work on an alternative or I give that story to a different GM who might be more compatible. The ideal is that we are both having fun and enjoying the story. You don’t need to DO anything to ‘earn’ it.
lol lmao
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@Herja I will state, for the record and for all to see, everything you have ever GMed for me has been amazing fun.
The only reason I don’t bang on your door for more is the feeling I described in my previous post – not wanting to come off as one of those “will take everything not nailed down and then move on” people. So I probably end up coming across like I’ve moved on anyway, tbh, which is its own problem. But I am always bouncing-in-my-seat excited for a chance to do stuff with you. Then I just get guilty and turtle-y about asking for more.
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@glitch I didn’t take anything you said poorly. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn’t sharing my thoughts from a place of bitterness but from a place where self-reflection led to some realizations about myself that I was doing stupid things and needed to stop.
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@tieflinguist honestly you probably should consider your contacts in this light. It’s healthier, because at the end of the day even if you are or do become a friend, if your target is a staffer, they are basically “at work”.
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@Herja said in The Stupid Things We Do:
Many MU friends aren’t really friends but more like really active acquaintances.
This is such a good way to put it. Friendly active acquaintances, even! But friendly isn’t the same as friends, and I personally find it really off-putting when a friendly active acquaintance starts dumping friend-level emotions, information, and expectations on me.
I think I view other players on a game with me almost like co-workers. We’re friendly! I like you! We’re together a lot! I’m not going to tell you about my parents’ divorce.
as previously stated, good day.
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@farfalla This has been my approach for a few years and it works. That shift into thinking that friendly does not mean we are friends has changed how I feel about the hobby and I feel like I am being much more fair with those I play with than I was before. I don’t see it really as something I want that I can’t have so I am sad about it but something that I shouldn’t have wanted and was only doing it out of unhealthy feelings on my part. I will chat about game stuff and story ideas and superficial life stuff all the time because I am like one of four extroverts in the hobby, I think, but I’m not going to talk in depth about my personal life and probably not be open to talking that deep about someone else’s if that relationship isn’t established already.
lol lmao
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Which does mean it can sometimes be hard to figure out when you have slid across the border between friendly acquaintance and friend because it absolutely happens, but it can also happen at work, so…
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@farfalla said in The Stupid Things We Do:
@Herja said in The Stupid Things We Do:
Many MU friends aren’t really friends but more like really active acquaintances.
This is such a good way to put it. Friendly active acquaintances, even! But friendly isn’t the same as friends, and I personally find it really off-putting when a friendly active acquaintance starts dumping friend-level emotions, information, and expectations on me.
I think I view other players on a game with me almost like co-workers. We’re friendly! I like you! We’re together a lot! I’m not going to tell you about my parents’ divorce.
Amen. Additionally, I enjoy spending time with you, but I also enjoy spending time with these other people, and I am not going to prioritise you over them at this our work place.
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@Herja said in The Stupid Things We Do:
I am like one of four extroverts in the hobby
Fascinating. I didn’t know you existed. Tell me more.
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@Tat I can’t reveal more of our secrets. I have already said too much.
lol lmao
