Lords and Ladies Game Design
-
@MisterBoring That’s how I run my D&D campaigns. The BBEG/Apocalypse isn’t going to sit around and wait for the PCs to quit dicking around to finally find the MacGuffins, prove their worth, and rally the allies they made along the way. I am very much a fuck around and find out DM. I keep strict time records as Gary Gygax admonished in the 1e AD&D Dungeon Master’s Guide
-
I think that there are several interconnected issues at play here in how PCs interact with plot:
- Plot Hoarders who don’t like to share because they want to do all of the things.
- Making sure that NPCs aren’t being used when there are PCs to get the spotlight.
- Making sure that plot doesn’t get hung up due to inactivity and just linger.
- People who “should” have been involved in the plot not hearing about it.
At their core, it feels like where this becomes particularly applicable to L&L games is where you have a feudal basis, so the Lord of Crakehall really should be brought in to deal with things happening around Crakehall, but if the player is idle or not in the right crowd, someone else might come in and fix the issue, even if that would “never happen” ICly. A good Staff team with good players can rationalize this away well enough, but one bad apple will spoil the whole rationalization and turn it into a morass of blame and disgruntlement.
I think that an effective way to deal with this is what was referenced above but not quite laid out directly: a chain of impact.
So if there are zombie coyotes in the Westwood, then Staff first has some folks at the lowest tier of PCs run into them (squires, unlanded knights, nobles out of direct succession, etc). If those PCs report it up the chain, then everything is good and Staff doesn’t have to intervene further except to run scenes for folks as the problem gets passed up (and hopefully back down) the chain. The Captain of the Guard is warned, assigns several PC guards to deal with it, reports up to the Head of House who adds a noble leader to the group and a few NPCs who will serve as off-screen beaters to bring the zombie coyotes to the PCs. Excellent. When the Captain of the Guard is warned, a bbpost goes up, so if some nobles are often in the Westwood for other reasons, they can reach out to you to see how they could be involved. If there’s a Bandit King of the Westwood… well, hopefully you reached out to him and his people at the same time as the squires, but if not, he can get involved now too. You have some social scenes and some hunting scenes, and your plot is off to the races.
If, on the other hand, the squires never report the zombie coyotes (they’re idle or hogging plot or whatever), then the Captain of the Guard gets an official report from a hunter that there are zombie coyotes in the Westwood attacking hunting parties (slight escalation from the first incident), and now hopefully the rest of the plot works as above (and the squires get chastised ICly for not saying anything if it was a choice they made). If the Captain of the Guard doesn’t do anything either, then there’s a bbpost about an attack on an outlying village, or maybe random nobles are pulled in for a picnic that goes horribly wrong. Either way, the Head of House is now involved (whether they’re a PC or an NPC), with bigger consequences because two levels of folks haven’t handled the problem, and your plot can continue. And if the bbposts go out when it’s still a problem, not a solved one, then your Westwood-frequenting PCs can either ask to get involved at that stage, or can integrate the incidents into their RP and stay uninvolved otherwise.
As for the tangential problem of having NPCs do the work of PCs, I think that this can be addressed directly and OOCly by Staff to the PCs who control those NPCs. If your Captain of the Guards puts in a request to have a group of NPC guards go out and hunt down the zombie coyotes, a note that they have PC guards who might like to be involved, and that the plot can hold for a few days while they reach out to those other PCs, should handle that. Of course, if a couple of the PC guards were the first ones to encounter the zombie coyotes, they’re already involved, and are likely to want to stay involved – hopefully they’ll be working with the Captain of the Guards to pursue the plotline.
Formerly known as Seraphim73 (he/him)
-
@Roadspike said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:
People who “should” have been involved in the plot not hearing about it.
There’s a subgroup of these people that are another interconnected issue:
- People who “should” have been involved in the plot, but choose to avoid the plot like the plague and end up complaining when the plot changes the world in a way that disturbs their roleplay.
Using the previous example, if a group of PCs find out about the zombie coyotes and are informed they will endanger the tavern that they prefer for all of their RP, but they still take no actions, then when the zombie coyotes overrun and destroy the tavern they do the majority of your RP at, they’re not allowed to complain that the results aren’t agreeable.
Other than that, I totally agree with everything you said.
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
-
@Roadspike My only thing here, and it may be addressed and I just didn’t see it, is something like a ‘you have until X day/time to reply, or this is escalating.’ If they need more time because vacation or OOC events, that’s fine it can be delayed for a short time, but this is another way to (hopefully) prevent folks from doing the ‘we never got a chance to be involved’.
This also may or may not address @MisterBoring’s followup, a big flashing sign about how the RP is going to be affected if they don’t do anything, I dunno. People still probably going to complain, but now you have a sign to yeet at them when they do.
-
@Jennkryst I would probably let it sit organically for a little while (whether that’s a few days or a week), and then put up a time limit warning (about the same length of time) after that. Mostly that’s just because I would rather teach people to react on their own, rather than wait for a prompt, but I recognize that sometimes the prompt is necessary.
I always want to keep in mind that I want to reward the behavior that I want to see, so giving those who respond on their own a little bonus (and letting them know it) would be reasonable.
Agree with @MisterBoring’s note that some people will complain even if you reach out and ask them directly to intervene… and you’re never going to please those people. And there is value to @Jennkryst’s yeetable sign.
Formerly known as Seraphim73 (he/him)
-
@MisterBoring said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:
Using the previous example, if a group of PCs find out about the zombie coyotes and are informed they will endanger the tavern that they prefer for all of their RP, but they still take no actions, then when the zombie coyotes overrun and destroy the tavern they do the majority of your RP at, they’re not allowed to complain that the results aren’t agreeable.
Without being able to dive into the nuance of a real situation, in this instance I can understand the reaction of the PCs here – sensible or not. If they’re not interested in your plot, mayhap you should have your plot impact something/someone else.
-
@Roadspike said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:
Agree with @MisterBoring’s note that some people will complain even if you reach out and ask them directly to intervene… and you’re never going to please those people.
Those people are probably my second biggest pet peeve in the entire MU hobby after the multitude of sex pests and other creepers.
-
I’m all for timelines on plots. If you do nothing, stuff still happens.
One of the most irritating situations I’ve encountered is to have all plot fed directly to Abelard, who is meant to distribute it but then refuses to give it to other PCs (presumably because this would disempower him) but also does not suffer any consequences for inaction. He excludes others and increases his IC power by ignoring the plot. @wheeee!
As for those players who don’t want to do anything to prevent the plot from destroying their favourite pub, but will complain bitterly when it does, well. None of the small handful of MUs I’ve made/run were meant to serve as sets for people to RP utterly independently of any GMing I might do. On a similar note, don’t come to D&D night at my house to play cribbage and bitch that the D&D players are noisy and have their dice all over the place.
-
@Gashlycrumb said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:
but also does not suffer any consequences for inaction
Have the commoners invent the guillotine.
-
@Ominous said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:
@Rucket Could you elaborate on what you mean by “basic House development”?
Apologies at the insane delay I don’t check this place daily. Anyway I liked the basic concept that Arx had of domains and I would enjoy seeing projects people in the house could work on to improve areas of their domain over time. I don’t know that I have any super specific things in mind off the top of my head right now.
