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Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo
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@Das-Auto Name the names and spill the tea (edit: if you so desire), no need to protect an abuser.
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@eddie yeah, I mean, if I ran Game A and people were like ‘Meg is a huge enabler of people being sex pests on her game’, the thread wouldn’t also include, ‘But she’s incredibly funny.’
The focus of the topic isn’t on what’s good. it’s what needs to be done better.
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@Das-Auto You’re under no obligation to actually name names unless that’s a fight you’re interested in getting into. I don’t think anyone here is under any illusions, and I doubt this game will be attracting many new players from this board.
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@helvetica But this is kind of my point. I’m not sure I agree that ‘being banned from a MUSH’ is actual harm.
The rest of this post is not necessarily a direct response, just thoughts that have been brewing this evening.
I don’t think any of this happens in a vacuum. Let’s say that reputational loss is a form of harm. If someone comes to me on a game I’m running and says ‘Hey, X is a sex pest’, the first thing I’ll do is talk to X.
Their response is usually pretty indicative of whether or not there’s substance to the accusations. If it’s “Oh god, I didn’t realise I was coming across like that, I’ll go apologise immediately”, that’s a very different response to “Well I said some things that toed the line but wow they’re so sensitive.” In the former case I’d probably give them the benefit of the doubt, in the latter I’d probably kick them out immediately. I still might keep an eye on them in the former case, and if more people come to me and say “Hey I don’t like X’s vibe, and they did these things too” I may reconsider my original decision.
The problem with the idea that “if you accuse someone they’ll immediately be ostracised from all their communities” is it’s not actually true? Like if someone came forwards and said “Hey Rath is a sex pest and he’s been pressuring me for TS,” I’d expect that my friends and the games I play on would go “hey what’s up with this?” and not knee-jerk kick me out of everything, but if I gave them shitty answers then they’d show me the door. I certainly wouldn’t kick out a long-standing friend over a single accusation on a MU board without talking to them first.
If you’re kicked out of a community from a single accusation on an internet forum? Well, chances are that there were many more accusations you didn’t see, and/or the community already had a vibe about you. Or, maybe the community was just not worth being part of in the first place, because yes, sometimes communities do just suck.
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@helvetica That part. Name names, if you want to*, I should have said. Apologies that it came off otherwise.
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@Meg But on the other side of the coin, it’s not the game that’s the problem. It’s people. Some people take issue with those named, others take issue with other players (like I had), and if everyone was just cast out, no one would rp anywhere! I’m sorry that others have had a negative experience there, I do think there’s an opportunity for growth, and I hope that through meaningful conversation, that happens.
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@eddie I would argue that a problem with staff and the Head of Staff is, in itself, a game problem. It’s a fundamental problem with the game.
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@Meg I think it’s a good point you’re making, but the other side is I can’t provide you proof that this is the case. I’m not implying anything about anyone by asking this, but what if the possibility exists that none of this is true? As an innocent bystander playing in the game under the purview of these people, I can’t make an informed decision without a measure of risk of it being true or false.
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@eddie And that is well within your right to do. Just like anyone reading this thread. They see what’s been said and by who, and they are going to judge it based on their own experiences of either the game or the people.
Hence why we said that testimony is a form of evidence, not a complete form of truth. Personally, I take into the fact that many people who don’t appear to know each other and are saying the same things is a little more weighted in truth than you might, as someone who plays the game and hasn’t been subjected to this.
It doesn’t mean that because you haven’t seen it that it’s not true, by the way. It just means that you haven’t seen it. But we all saw what Hadrix said on channel, in that log. That wasn’t even a denial. That was a ‘I have toed the line and apologized before, so bitches can’t be mad’, right there. So again, I believe what I have read here.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
But on the other side of the coin, it’s not the game that’s the problem.
It is the head of the game that fosters the environment creating the issue being addressed in this thread. If the leader of that game would actually take steps to protect players this wouldn’t be an issue. This is an issue because instead of addressing the problem, Cujo has promoted Hadrix to staff and empowered that abuse. That is a game problem.
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@Meg That’s totally fair. I acknowledge people are incorporating their own experiences in this. My experience just differs, and I appreciate that there might be a side of it I haven’t witnessed. My own testimony is that it’s not something I’ve seen in the game regarding those named.
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@GoodInnit Thank you for this comment.
My question is this. Was it really a promotion? People who serve on staff are subjected to a lot of abuse by players who don’t get their way. Passive aggressiveness, hatefulness, bitterness, etc. I’m not shielding the action of those named, but my perspective of staff being a promotion is slightly different. I think there’s more liberty in being able to just show up, rp, and have a good time.
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If you are being genuine, I encourage you heavily to go read about flying monkeys from a psychological standpoint; how they are groomed by abusers, and how they are used. It will prove really enlightening.
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@eddie And you’re welcome to give it!
I do have a suggestion, if you want to have an impact on the ‘Court’ of Public Opinion on BMD, that you might actually have more of an impact if you name who you play and how close you are or aren’t to Hadrix.
You don’t have to. I have a feeling you won’t. But most people reading this are going to assume that you are benefiting from association in some way with Hadrix, fyi, when you say it’s not your experience with him. That is what I am assuming, tbh, but I am willing to be proven wrong.
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@IoleRae Is that a book or an article? I’d love to read it, regardless.
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@eddie, you have provided enough specific information about specific experiences that at this point people who know you, know who you are. I’m not going to name you because you’re exhausting to argue with, your points never make any sense, and perhaps on some level, as a kindness to you.
If nothing else, the way you came in here swinging like a condescending lunatic and backed it off to “I’m an innocent bystander, I’m also a victim, don’t blame the game, I just haven’t seen the behavior that’s all <3” when the community wasn’t having it… identifies you as you.
I considered naming you in the original whistle-blow because you have bullied people and there have been complaints about you, because you exploit Cujo’s desire to avoid conflict to get away with that bullying, and because you are inextricably linked to Hadrix. He would never call out your misdeeds nor you his.
I didn’t name you because you’re a jerk player, and the scope of the post was limited to jerk admin.
Since you’re here, though: Do better.
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It’s a term, with many many articles published that talk about it. Here’s one:
In a nutshell, abusers cultivate hyper-positive relationships with individuals; they are very kind, behave gracefully, and are generally quite careful how they behave in the presence of them. They do this specifically so that when talk of their abuse comes out, they have ready-made defenders who will take it upon themselves to argue on their behalf that they have never seen this, it’s not true, etc. It’s just another way to discredit their victims.
When the monkey in question benefits directly from the behavior of the abuser, they are particularly vehement in their “I have never seen it!” defense. It’s studied enough and blatant enough that it’s…really, really obvious once you realize what’s going on.
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@eddie Did you notice the title?
It’s about the two people mentioned and identifying the game they’re on.
Why would you expect the person to also name all the fun times they’ve had that don’t involve them? It sounds like there haven’t been any with those two.
Again, you’re falling into the trap of “well if I didn’t experience it personally than it didn’t happen.” No one says for you to not still happily spend time with people who you like and who treat you well, but you’re a fool if you think that abusive or predatory people aren’t perfectly capable of separating and directing different behaviors towards different people. Some cannot, and those are the easy ones.
But honestly, when the Headwiz makes a decision to enable/leave in place someone, that is a game problem. It may not be enough of a problem for YOU or any given person (I’ve stayed on games where the headwiz was intensely disliked or problematic, and just tried to not really have a lot of expectations and just do my thing. Sometimes it was fine, sometimes i decided it wasn’t worth it, sometimes it was fine until it wasn’t. So knowing that a headwiz doesn’t seem to be responsive to complaints is still…part of the game (and important to many).
I had typed up a vent about how I’m tired of this stuff and every time i find it hard to react because of my experiences RL and a significant one on a mush message board, but you know, the people here don’t need to hear that shit again and I don’t know how to use the spoiler tag, and it’s not going to change anything so just going to let that go.
I will say though, please reconsider EVER asking someone who is relaying an experience of unwanted and boundary crossing behavior by a person to name all the nice things about them or the authority figure who dismissed them. Maybe you don’t know, but that’s a tactic to discourage “ruining the reputation of a probably nice guy/gal” and to get rid of the sensation of discomfort by silencing the person who was the target either wittingly or unwittingly that was commonly used even by law enforcement people on domestic violence or stalking cases even 20 years ago or so and is still in common use in many communities. Including, unfortunately, some microcommunities. It’s unnecessary.
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@Meg I appreciate you including me in this discussion and probing me for meaningful response.
I’m not willing to provide who I am on the game as it stands to reason I will gain no benefit from my comments. I’m not vigorously defending the alleged actions of those mentioned, only saying that I have not seen it from my perspective, which is strongly opposed here, but heard at least, and I appreciate the opportunity to say so.
I will comment that I interact often with those accused, but only in that they provide content or direction of many of stories players can participate in. My own personal situation has left me incapable of participating lately, though. I recently experienced the loss of someone very dear to me, and grief has certainly weighed upon my conscience as of late.
I suppose my own motivation in posting here, after I saw it, was to convey that the story/game is not bad. I can count many wonderful experiences I’ve had there, and genuine good people I’ve met. I just want more positivity in the world, and in place of lamenting a problem, finding more meaningful solutions. I saw where people were saying that they were going to leave, and I just felt responsible for the game because I play there, and in essence, it’s a reflection of me as a person, too. Or so it may be perceived. My nature is to be a fixer, but in this particular scenario, I have no power to fix things and make it function better.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
My question is this. Was it really a promotion? People who serve on staff are subjected to a lot of abuse by players who don’t get their way. Passive aggressiveness, hatefulness, bitterness, etc. I’m not shielding the action of those named, but my perspective of staff being a promotion is slightly different. I think there’s more liberty in being able to just show up, rp, and have a good time.
Yes.
Staff has a position of power over the average player, and promoting someone with numerous complaints of harassment against them makes it that much harder for victims to do anything. The person that judges the abuse should never be the abuser, and now he is. The next victim is even less likely to come forward because what good will come of it?
