I’m so glad there is a space for people to process their feelings, not only as individuals but together. We may “just” be an online community and some of the meeting places may “just” be a message board but it is a real community, and when stuff breaks down it can really hurt.

I don’t want anyone to misconstrue my quietness to mean I don’t care. I do, very much. It’s been hard to see my name invoked in things that are incorrect to me (though I can see why it was done so), or to back up things by people who were hurtful to me personally. But sometimes that’s what happens when people are arguing or trying to cope with what they need to cope with and I’m not angry about it.

I’m not a saint, or some great person and it makes me uncomfortable. I don’t think me being present during the blow up would have changed anything, I don’t and never did have that much power. For that same reason I don’t think anyone else could influence the decisions that have been made either, except for the people that are right now making them. I thought that stepping down would relieve stress (and it did), and that it would be enough (it wasn’t), because the minute I stupidly engaged in a discussion that I should have known how it would turn out, a lot of that hurt came right back to the surface and for my part in that I’m very sorry, it’s hard to not feel like that didn’t instigate something that shouldn’t have been. I thought I was getting to be over it, but I’m not.

It’s hard to lose access to a place that you once felt like you had a part in. Or to feel less welcome and safe. Regardless of justification but especially when it doesn’t feel like it was and it was abrupt. It’s hard to let go of that and stop looking/reading/whatever. It may not even be appropriate for some people, and that’s of course a decision that has to be made for yourself. I wish I could say something that would help, but I also know I can’t. There’s nothing to say. It did not happen for me on the boards this time, but I have experienced it elsewhere and it was bewildering and angering and made me feel more grief that I thought I should.

To say this has been a dark time for me would be an understatement. Yes, 90 percent of it is factors other than what happened, but what happened triggered some pretty serious things that I still have to be very careful about (as I discovered last night too). I guess I’m not over that either.

There have been several times in the history of “the community” where different boards have existed (and yes even rivalries–ask the dinosaurs, this isn’t the first time this has happened. I think it’s easier now to find/hang on to the friends that you want, and refind others as time goes on. I’ve had friends in this hobby that were close, and then a falling out ended things for years, and then we reconnected stronger than ever. And other relationships with folks that just…didn’t ever re-engage–and that’s okay too. Real life, right? It doesn’t make it less painful in the moment.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I do really love you guys. I wish things had happened differently. I wish I’d been more capable, or it had been a better moment for a whole bunch of people. That things didn’t bubble up exactly the way that they did, because while I can see why people say it’d been building up for awhile, I don’t think it was the best for anyone how it happened. I wish that we all didn’t have so much other shit in our lives that sometimes makes stuff in THIS community feel like the last straw. I think whatever place you land at, and are able to settle into community is good. And yes, even if it’s both. Sometimes having an alternative that you feel more comfortable on and that becoming the new main (or the old main)–that’s a good thing. There doesn’t even have to be a comparison. I like what’s building here. I hope with more hands on deck both here and at MSB people will be able to build what they want. Hats off to the team here for being able to take something like this on board when a lot of the people are grieving at least a little. Sometimes that’s taking on some hard stuff that you don’t notice until later, but I think you are amazing.

There’s a lot of games I’ve been on over the years, so any omissions is more because I can’t remember the names (but I do tend to remember people/situations)

Current:
Arx: Edris, Karina past: Nurie, Ouida, Maren, tried Lailah but couldn’t mesh.
City of Shadows: Fiametta

Past:
Shadowrun Seattle: Nocturnis, Sakura Saito
Shadowrun Detroit: Milla
TCbTT (oWoD): Galatea, Niccola, Chai
A2A (oWoD): Arianwyn, Julia
Metro 2.0 (oWoD): Jade
A handful of other oWoD places, one set in Hawaii, one in Morocco, a few in US cities.
The Reach (nWoD): Ariadne, May, Fremont (changeling app staffer, then later Mortal/M+ sphere head)
CoFaB (nWoD): Gloria
Eldritch (nWoD): Toni (also at BITN)
Mystick Krewe (Buffy): Nanette
Star Crusade (Fading Suns): Naima, Verity, Samina
Battlestar Orion: Kostas
Battlestar Deimos: Enyo
RfK (CoD?): Nathalie
Savage Skies: Donovan, Enid
Liberation MUSH (new owod): Bastian

Brief appearance on Keys as the person who took Fable off the roster. Tried several other ares places at this time, but none of them took (not because people aren’t nice or I didn’t enjoy things, just it didn’t grab me like Arx has).

I’m always looking for new folks to play with/meet. If you’ve told me your alt and I don’t rp regularly with you (or honestly even if we do) chances are I will forget about it. So I’m almost always game for a background tie, ect.

for many reasons both mush related and not i’m really sick of the “keep sweet” mentality that is often pushed on people who push back when someone is being ugly. it’s honestly rather repulsive to me. i’ve had to deal with a lot of “be kind/put other people’s comfort above your own/shut up” through most of my life. i don’t feel particularly bound to be kind to someone who threw shade at a game runner about being irresponsible because the game didn’t last for the amount of time that they thought it would and then even insinuated that maybe they shouldn’t have made the game in the first place because of that. along with the ‘hmm if you’re not perfect maybe you shouldn’t say anything because you know you’re both not perfect’ stuff. that kind of stuff should have died in the 90s and i think it should be called out bluntly every single damn time.

Struggling with significant depression rn. I’m doing ok juggling most things I think. But a bit slower on the uptake/not very much energy right now. At some point maybe I will be less burnt out by life, but man it is really hard. I know I have lots of people right here with me tho.

“let’s all be nice” is a tool of silencing. i think it’s not always intended that way, but sometimes it absolutely is less about actual concern for others and more about that person calling for that being unable to tolerate their discomfort. i think that’s fine outside of the rough and rowdy section. but within it, i’m going to be just honest here with my personal opinon–i think pushing keep sweet on people is being an asshole here.

enforce respectful language. call out hypocritcal stuff. that’s needed. keeping sweet is not, and should not be. maybe my feelings are inappropriately raw for this. i am trying to be respectful, but i’m not feeling kind and i’m not a bad person for not feeling kind about this. IMO.

today was hard, but I made it through.

@CuriousGamer why are you involving me in this?

ETA: if i cared to comment on any thread on MSB, then I would. I do not know why she would want to quote me about anything regarding defending herself, as to my knowledge i’ve never RPed with her (or if I did it was unknowing or such a long time ago and unremarkable as to not really stay in my memory, so it was neither a bad experience or an ecstatic one).

So if she hates me or something, I really have no clue why, unless it’s just a flailing thing, in which case it’s certainly not personal, because I’ve never done anything to harm this person. And I can’t imagine that she could possibly say anything that would hurt me more than other whisper campaigns have in the past (and I have a pretty good track record of being vindicated with those nearly every time someone has tried it). The folks on MSB that would be eager to agree that I’m a terrible person already think that and she in no way could possibly influence that.

As Roz said. It is NOT a kindness to tell someone “hey, people are talking about you!” in a situation like this. I assume there are plenty of people out there who can say all sorts of mean things about me, and probably do. If I had to constantly be vigilant about that kind of shit then I would have even less energy for RP than I do now. I play several places, for the most part very happily, with people who are happy to RP with me, and I’d like to keep it that way.

The MSB split is very painful for me personally and it’s always going to be that way. That’s not your fault, but please be considerate and don’t tag me in like this for this kind of cross board stuff in the future.

Feeling like you are dropping every ball and letting everyone down sucks, even if you know life goes on. I feel like a crappy RPer anyway of late, but its frustrating to fall on my face right now in particular when rl too is just relentless.

There are no “receipts” that people accept in “our medium.”

Someone shows outside of the game communication? It’s always they shouldn’t have worn that dress and also unfair/not game related.

Someone shows a log? “The log was probably edited by someone with an axe to grind!” “Maybe you shouldn’t have been so sensitive. Gee, I would have been flattered and not taken that so seriously!” " Sometimes the person i could have seen as harassing me turned out to be a Nice Guy/Gal once I just talked to them a little more, so let’s give this awkward person a break and you should be more tolerant."

People take the information presented to them and make a decision. That’s always been the case. It’s just who tends to be “the most believable” is a little more diverse than it was during 90s mushing and a lot of “awkward” behavior is a lot less acceptable, and the culture has shifted away from rules lawyering about who “should” be asked to leave.

Reeling a bit from a mispage earlier in the day that kinda took the wind out of my sails.

On the one hand, I guess I know who to avoid in the future. But it’s coming at a really bad place of timing.

It really sucks to feel like you’re okayish enough to pass the time with RP wise if there’s nothing better to do, but you’re not of the caliber where it would be worth engaging in deeper RP with you since you’re just a lightweight bore and there’s nothing substantial there.

I do often feel (as do like 98 percent of the people I know) like i’m the always the unwanted/last person to be picked for the kickball team. I don’t /think/ it’s the reality (and hey if we were all the super popular kickball captains growing up maybe we wouldn’t have gotten into mushing or whatever so it’s just kind of a primal worry for a lot of people. But i’m feeling it super hard tonight.

I’ll work through it (or disappear) but damn. I’ve done my share of mispages but it’s been awhile since I got one and i have to say it kinda really did hurt this time. Even if if it’s from someone that I really don’t even care about!

I think a lot of expectations seem reasonable on the surface–if games happened in a vacuum or were run by robots. They do not and are not.

I think everyone is happier in the long run if when they notice that they do not get a response in the amount of time before they start to feel resentful and this seems to be the rule rather than the exception either they need to accept that and play with what they have or it is time to move on.

Staying while mad and steeping in resentment poisons the experience even when it is your turn, and can also affect everyone you are around too. It doesn’t really matter why. If the Could/Should isn’t happening for you, it probably isn’t personal (unless thats your usual experience across different gamerunners and genres, in which case perhaps some introspection is needed). But it is good to make some realistic expectations shifts in how much mental energy and time you want to invest in a game where for whatever reason there’s a mismatch in what you get vs what you feel you’re giving.

And sometimes players need time off to recover from a previous bad experience elsewhere. Few things kill staff or storytelling morale (or player morale) than a player vomiting game trauma dumping all over them and having a huge chip on their shoulder about how other people have wronged them elsewhere and are unable to interact without mentioning it frequently.

@STD my experience as staffer and player is that a lot of people say this and mean it, but a lot of people say it and think they mean it but only in very specific ways and will get very upset or just not respond/claim to be railroaded because they didn’t think they voted say no if they ever wanted attention again.

Even having prefs (and I’ve seen that done very thoughtfully and well on a few places!) slides into tricky territory when staff initiates something that alters a character that that character didn’t chase (and let’s be honest, even some chasers still dont like the end result if it doesn’t meet unspoken or even unrealized at the time expectations.)

I am all for prefs and pick me flags though. I just think that unless there’s good personality and crowd control on a game, it’s very hit or miss if utilizing that is going to be actually helpful. I think in part because a lot of people think staff attention for a period will solve their engagement issues with other players, that it will open doors, but I’ve yet to see that happen for people that weren’t capable of doing that on their own. Which leads to more resentment on the temporary spotlighted pc.

It’s just complicated. I love knowing what people’s no go or yes please prefs are as long as theyre honest though!

I’ve seen the points for play/spotlight/equity thing tried and floated a lot over the years.

I think it’s easy to understand why that might be desired.

The problem is it never has the effect that the advocates/wishers want. Never.

Not because players or staff suck, but because participation and spotlight is rarely about numbers. Minutes of screentime. Number of mentions in staff posts. Length of title bestowed upon player/character. Number of scenes present. All of that can be a component for feeling engaged, satisfied, or like things are as accessible to you as you see certain other individuals getting–but it doesn’t solve the problem which is largely rooted in feelings and we are all imperfect human beings whose feelings and perceptions may or may not obey the laws of those numbers.

You can’t points calculate your way out of feeling like maybe other people are getting the kind of impact you want and don’t think you’re getting. Racking up and using points or other acquired resources honestly can lead to feeling even more disappointed in the result if it’s not perceived to be “as good as” what a similar group got. I don’t even want to think about the pressure and just real feeling of defeat/morale bust that places on staff.

I saw this play out again and again and again on Arx and other places, with a huge diverse set of people that I perceived to have similar levels of engagement/spotlight complaining about how they got nothing but the other person got everything (sometimes the same people complaining about each other verbatim), or some people being terribly upset about their writeup that at least from my perspective was even better than one I’d gotten, but they were complaining to me that my group got the favorable one. Again, not because ANY of these people were bad (staff or player) but perception and feelings of disappointment are difficult. And storytelling isn’t like knowing you have to earn ex amount of tickets playing skeeball to “win” a laffy taffy or glow in the dark kazoo–maybe you won’t like the spotlight you get, maybe you won’t like the storytelling you get for your plot, maybe both you and the person that you’re wishing you’d gotten their writeup/storytelling are thinking the same thing (and hopefully no one is telling the poor ST this always). I mean hell, I whined about it as much as anyone else too because…well, perception. And humanity.

I think it’s just the human part of our hobby.

So I actually think there’s no magic number to staff to player ratio. I wish staff felt free to not have to numberize things, to feel like they could close down apps or take breaks when they’re feeling overwhelmed and be reasonably certain players would take it with grace. I like it when staff feels free to gently (or firmly) show players that stress them out or drain them too much the door, even if those players haven’t done anything “wrong”, because they’re protecting the staff enjoyment and stress balance.

I think the problem is that people take stuff really personally. I’m not saying I’m a saint and I don’t because I do. Luckily for me I do tend to have great friends on game who are able to tell me that I might need to check my reaction (and I think they tend to tell me that because I’m for the most part good about listening to that, and returning the favor). But like–I don’t think you can build that into an OOC clout/spotlight numbers game.

I get the impulse for people who find it really hard to initiate RP, or find that for whatever reasons they’re passed up for invites in favor of those that to them seem less “deserving.” I really do. I just don’t think there’s an external system that will solve that.

As long as the ooc atmosphere is polite to cordial/friendly (prefer it closer to the friendly side), has some boundaries around public ooc/rl oversharing, and where staff helps people who are freaking out because they dont actually like the game leave, I am pretty genre flexible.

I like trying new things as far as theme/world/genre/ic feel!

One or very limited, based on what multiple staff can support in a way that isn’t stressful, along with an pc per player limit of 1 or 2.

Allowing one pc per sphere doesn’t work well most of the time, especially in an era where most folks don’t have the spare time that they did as young 20 somethings. It also tends to compound problems of burnout, fomo, ect even though in theory it should help.

I always appreciate it when staff don’t schedule all metaplot or staff plot scenes in the middle of the weekday my time, but I guess by now I’m used to having to alternate my availability/sometimes get up super early/stay up super late to be able to participate. But unless there’s STs from different timezones or work times there’s just a limit to what can be done, that’s not really anyone’s fault.

Flexibility doesn’t yield the results it should, a lot of the time, in my observation. Just getting people to respond promptly to WIG or other stuff like that to try to schedule things, and the amount of chronic no shows, I’m not sure if I would recommend to a staff that they put themselves out in a very stressful or inconvenient way to maybe get somebody to possibly show up at a off time. It’s different if the person is proactive in suggesting times and reliable though, so I guess it’s fine to give it a try–but I’ve seen an awful lot of staff and STs really try to do everything “right” and then get pretty bummed out when people don’t show up and are back to complaining about how there’s never anything available to them the whole time.

I do like it when staff use requests/jobs as a way to get involved/get info that can be used to RP vs. just via scenes. Some genres are easier than others when it comes to this, but getting to have an impact even on advantages/setup/cleanup from live scenes is pretty nice, especially when one can get RP outside of ST scenes.

It’s never been important to me to have One Big Story, as a player. I think for some particular runners/staff teams it is fun for them and helps them structure what they want to do, which I think is great and fully support. I enjoy playing in metaplotty things. But I would be just as happy playing various one off or short term stories too. The truth is I am too dumb to remember a kind of long term plot where I need a whatever that app was where you kept track of all these different tendrils of things, anymore. But I can be an enthusiastic participant in things that catch my notice, and I enjoy plots that aren’t metaplots. I’ve started to get better about organizing, but I can only sustain it for relatively simple/short term stuff. Luckily people (staff and not staff) dont seem to mind terribly, or at least, not enough to tell me to go away to my face.

As a player what’s most important to me is that staff do what makes them happy, and be willing to sometimes thump me upside the head if it’s clear I’m clueless and making it not fun for them. (If I’m pursuing a stupid red herring, I am TOTALLY okay with course correcting with someone is like hey mietze, you are a hoot but that’s getting way off track. PLEASE tell me that rather than feeling obligated and bored and distressed!) But I totally understand why staff don’t do that, because I’ve seen the epic tantrums that sometimes people have. BuT my CHaracTeR WOULd do tHIS!!!1111!! Ugh.

I know some people think of that as railroading, and I suppose I have met a very few STs who were extremely rigid and angry about people not getting things right, but usually there’s clues way in advance that I’m not going to be the best fit for that staff/ST so I can see myself out.

I just want staff to enjoy what they’re doing most of the time (it’s never fun ALL of the time when you’re dealing with people). Whatever they need to do that is fine with me.

I think staff should be able to play or not play as it pleases them. If they’re open about it, so the people who shit themselves if staff does/doesn’t play (and I’ve seen it go both ways) can make an informed decision.

Staff should also feel free to remove and boot any player who can’t shut up about that. I’m a big fan of staff getting noisy people who can’t accept the policies of the game but for whatever reason can’t leave TO leave so they don’t wreck the environment for others.

Twenty years ago, I often got pretty enraged when I saw staff member PCs (and I agree with Faraday that sorry guys, everyone’s going to know who they are even if you don’t put a tag on it, that’s the way things are) “hogging all the spotlight,” Now, honestly, I’ve gotten to the stage that I just don’t care. If there are things going on that I can participate in, then I will stay and participate until I don’t feel like it anymore. If nothing is available to me but lookyloo, usually I’ll leave sooner. Not with animosity, but just because it’s boring, and I don’t have control over it anymore. I have found that the last case seldom happens, honestly. I’m not in the proper geographic area for prime time for more places, but I can almost always find people to enjoy who at least enjoy me enough to RP with me.

I wish I was better at dual wielding (playing and STing). I could do it pretty well when I was younger, but honestly I just find it super hard to focus that way now for a variety of reasons. So if I ever do do my little glorified tabletop thing, I won’t be having my own “pc” because I’ll have my hands full running STed scenes which involve keeping track of multiple characters even if they aren’t as fleshed out as a PC, and that will max me out. I never assume I am unique in the hobby, so I think that’s why some people also don’t like to have PCs on games that they run (or if they do they are pure flavor side pieces with friends, for funsies).

I think that it’s a good idea for all alts on a game to be public, for avoidance purposes. I don’t think this should have to include all alts in the hobby ever. To some degree there’s some trust involved. I am shit for remembering people’s alts usually. But If I find out that there’s someone who has expressed negative things about me in the past, while I won’t avoid them on another game in the sense of flouncing off on public scenes or crying to friends about how they too should not play with that person (luckily my friends in the hobby would kick my ass if I behaved that shittily, unless the person was a creeper/abuser, but those are rare and usually my friends will spot them before I do), I also don’t seek them out. I also don’t lie if someone asks who I am. I just don’t like broadcasting because I do have two consistent stalkers still in the hobby that will OOCly seek to interact with me if I am publicly known on a game (but they’re both kind of weird and tend to get removed eventually). I wouldn’t be upset if I even interacted with them wittingly on a game (they don’t tend to disclose who they are). I just don’t want the OOC interaction.

@catzilla i understand. It’s just that when I see those mistakes I think wow they’re not very good at writing rp hooks before they have a chance to rp the character/maybe they don’t have a sense of them yet. So maybe I’m just willing to give them more benefit of the doubt than some. I’ve seen a lot of looks great on wiki pcs that were very difficult to RP with in practice because either they were rigid about their vision and unable to really RP with anyone or they were selfish in scenes or were only willing to sit back and let others come up with things for them to react to, ect.

People who suck at writing interesting rp hooks can be all those things too. But I just don’t really think rp hooks have much of an impact especially in the beginning stages. Esp as required by CG. I’ve even played on mostly all roster games where rp hooks were rather tepid or limited to profession/very basic and not very interesting stuff. So really you had to just kind of give people a chance. Maybe it’s that experience and figuring why the hell just not give someone a chance, they’re likely not going to be worse than a control freak/rping mostly with themselves sort of player, my views have softened over the years.

Sometimes I think its a fine line. When I invest in a merit that is appearance based i will reference it in play when I feel its appropriate and it is kind of fun when other people do too. I’m sure that may annoy people too but its valid I feel and I try to be careful about not using directives but more like “aesthetically pleasing to many standards” or specific features ect.

I dont know i would put that in an RP hook but mostly because I tend to feel that it seems like an unwitting inviitation for certain types of pests to target (not saying it is an actual invitation or it would be their fault but just all those years of experience and observation make me have a flexible bump of worry especially if its also combined with certain other factors).

But I’m also coming from the perspective of seeing RP hooks as a way to either build a background contact/previous off screen experience to have a reason for play or suggestions on what kind of scenes would be easy to spin up with that PC. And looks are tricky because positive or negative if thats supposed to be a draw for interaction then it fizzles if the other pc is used to seeing monsters/other things even more fantastical or isn’t attracted to in the sense of hmmm id like to try and know this person their other features.

I tend to always be willing to give people a chance for at least a scene or two. Some people just aren’t good at coming up with rp hooks but they’re fine in RP! Other people are actually great at rp hooks but then you feel like they are rping AT you and not even bothering to read what you wrote. Which to me personally is far far more annoying. So I’ve found it a not great indicator of qualify. And they’re outdated very very quickly esp for new pcs.