@Hobbie yeah that sounds like a nightmare! There’s only so much you can do as a friend, and I think just about everyone would struggle having to deal with that, especially when it is a consistent pattern. Hopefully this will relieve a lot od stress in your life. I hope cutting out people who dont add much to your life but that level of stress ahd disappointment gives you a little more peace!
Posts
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RE: Real Life Struggles/Support/Vent
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RE: Your first game?
I do miss game meet ups in person! I’ve met some of my best and oldest rl friends that way, and we needed the in person meet ups because we annoyed each other on the games themselves until we met in person!
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RE: Historical Games Round 75
@Roadspike that is largely what I mean. If I dont think staff is able and willing to spot and remove people that don’t get it, that is where I dont bother investing/playing on that place because I know its going to go off the rails, no matter what language is used in policies/what the genuine intent is. I know many nice/creative folks who are great storytellers but suck at boundaries.
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RE: Historical Games Round 75
@Tez I dont think it is either, I enjoy those tensions, but personally I’d only want to give it a shot with gamerunners I trusted, both in how that would be managed and their quickness in excluding people with problematic behavior that crop up. (You are on the list of trusted gamerunners BTW but I think you already know that! <3)
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RE: Historical Games Round 75
I always find it disappointing when people can’t live without the historical -isms, even though I also don’t terribly mind if they’re in there to an extent and people who are clearly really leaning into getting their ooc freak on in regards to that are culled.
With most any game setting on a mush, you always have to narrow down the scope for the sanity of the staff and the health of the game as a whole. This is just part of that! Of course you will get the screamers of OMG I can’t be whatever splat/association I want putting pressure on game runners to do all nobility plus all guild availability on a fading suns game with 2 staff, or screaming for 15 splats on a WoD place when staff only have availability or interest for 1-3!
I’ve always told people I understand how exploring certain themes from the relative safety of RP is very appealing but that’s probably something better done in a private game or one that the playerbase is heavily vetted because on a public one, one with randos, or one with many “friends” of friends, you are increasing the likelihood of someone who has no business exploring those themes with others being able to come in. Maybe sometimes there’s staff willing to police it, and if there is and you like that avenue of play rather than whining you better treat them well, because most people don’t have time or patience for that.
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RE: Real Life Struggles/Support/Vent
@Hobbie I’ve managed to maintain adult friendships with people whose parenting choices wouldn’t be mine, but very importantly, it’s because we avoid long together times when the kids are involved. Most of the time we’ve had the elephant in the room discussion soon after the precipitating event, which has always been interesting (and one of the reasons why we were able to maintain the friendship). I personally have never regretted keeping a friendship in this manner (unless we couldn’t have that discussion, sans kids, but all of those times the friendship naturally fizzled).
I’m not going to say don’t go against your gut, but it might be worth thinking for a bit if you are willing to give the friendship a chance, chalk this up to not being a good vacation fit because they were more on edge with friends sharing a space (it happens), something’s going on between them that you don’t know about (it happens), or somesuch.
I’ve definitely had to draw boundaries with some friends who are also parents around what I will and won’t do with their kids at my house (or theirs) and the rules of engagement/courtesy at mine too (Like an agreement we all put the phones away/in phone jail, what areas are off limits, ect). I tend to be the more vigilant person at gatherings too just because I slip into early childhood educator mode, and I think some people naturally default to it. It definitely makes me thankful for the majority of friends in my life that are solid “aunties and uncles” to my kids, even if our day to day parenting styles aren’t in total alignment, I know they have oversight and are vigilant to keep everyone safe.
But yeah, there are a handful of folks where I have been, “You know, I enjoy doing X Y, or Z with you but I think we should do it without the kids,” too.
That being said i am sorry you are even having to consider this and that the vacation was ruined. It really sucks when people disappoint you like this. And it is totally better to just let them go sometimes too!
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RE: Your first game?
Shadowrun Seattle and some weird vague MOO that I’ve forgotten the name of.
In 1994 or 1995 I think. Quickly followed by Twin Cities by Tea Time (the original). LOL.
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RE: Real life happy
I landed a dream job with excellent low cost bennies (yay state employment) and I’m still having fun and no stress! It was a hard decision to leave my old job as I loved the community there but it was getting too hard for me physically. But now even the worst day is less painful than the best day at my old job, and the worst day is pretty mellow. For now, it’s so nice to be able to breathe again, and have a normal level of stress. I also get to interact every day with 6 months old through seniors in high school, and seeing how much the big kids enjoy learning how to care for the littles is doing my heart a lot of good.
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RE: Factions
I’ve never seen this done successfully in a public game. Nor have I seen it last well in a game that turned from private to open invite.
I can’t really put my finger on it, because it wasn’t that the game was swarmed by evil people or anything weird like that. I am thinking perhaps it’s easier to mind small burps before they turn into catastrophic spew with a small number of players?
I too am eager to hear of examples where it was able to last, especially post-open-invite or when the size grew to more medium+ sized MU instead of glorified table top or very small community.
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RE: Numetal/Retromux
Every once in awhile I miss being staff/ST on a WoD place but dealing with people like this reminds me why I actually do not.
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RE: RL Peeves
RL is eating me alive. I sustained what I am no longer in denial about it being a career ending injury several months ago, still doing my best to soldier through my remaining settled contract hours all while jumping into the abyss of despair that is job searching right now (and starting over in roles that I dont have 30 years of experience in). Ugh.
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RE: pvp vs pvp
@RedRocket I’ve seen genuine no holds barred games developed and run but the last few i personally know of were invite only. Mostly because the runners don’t want oocly tiresome or showboating folks or want to curate their players to people they reasonably can be confident wont take it personally when something doesn’t go the way they expect.
I’ve played a soft majority of pvp friendly games in my life and honestly sometimes dealing with a big chunk of the pb attracted to them is just very tiring. I am not sure why you say it is the non pvp folks who are the whiners. My god half the reason old school pvp stuff took so long was the incessant whining and rules layering of the people most into it. Usually I was hoping one of them would just please off my PC by the end of many of the encounters so I could escape and not have to read their words anymore. I have never heard stronger whining or tantrums than on a pvp focused game.
That isn’t to say all pvp friendly folks are whiners, because they are not. But if you are very sensitive to people whining probably the best place is one that doesn’t do ooc communication very much. Those are out there too. Or were.
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RE: pvp vs pvp
@Pavel oh the glory days of days (or weeks) of being timestopped/frozen.
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RE: pvp vs pvp
@Pavel That’s how I recall it as well. But honestly there were so many ways to do the machinations, that the non lethal stuff was kind of inherently more rewarding. Also the system allowed great diversity in types of PCs that could get involved too (non-vampires were quite valuable). If someone only focused on the ability to kill someone whenever they wanted to, that really wasn’t going to be as effective as in essence team building for their side, ect.
However, that was also a very intensely managed game, and when the person doing most of the managing couldn’t, and it had to shift more into a traditionally managed thing, it really became problematic because people didn’t have as much fun diversity to focus on. I do think that’s really why you don’t see as much of that style of game. It’s a lot of work, if you want it to be sustainable it takes a lot of cultivating/caring for it, and if playerbase gets too big or there’s not as much time for cultivating the atmosphere then you get the same old same old problematic stuff.
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RE: pvp vs pvp
@Livia This is kind of where I fall too. I definitely did less OOC discussion/avoidance of it earlier when I was on a lot of WoD games, and it doesn’t bother me when people prefer less checking in. I’m neutral on it for myself.
But I personally have found that many people I run into now are a lot more relaxed and willing to change it up with RP/invite more and more diverse tension/conflict in RP when it’s okay to have that OOC check in, and a more overt understanding that saying “I’m into whatever RP,” does not mean that “and I am down with giving you whatever you want whenever you want it so go ahead and lay that assault and kidnapping scene on me 5 minutes after I walk into this upscale restaurant on grid/feel free to snipe me unseen because I forgot to change my clothing object before coming to the dive bar so I’m dressed inappropriately, since of course if I’m logged in I’m at your disposal.”
Sometimes I could do without the “and anyone who’s into gritty RP is obviously a psycho if I’m not in the mood–even if they’re not even remotely interacting with me or affecting my RP in anyway,” that I’ve seen too but again I think that’s just people peopling, and the desire to yuck other people’s yums that aren’t yours is not something I think is ever going to stop completely.
I enjoyed the thrill of non-consent-based places. But I think I’d only play on a private/invite only one where I trusted the people running it to vet and/or remove problem people from it these days. I’m just too old/low energy for that shit.
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RE: pvp vs pvp
@Ashkuri’s experience squares with what I have observed and seen friends who ran more PVP focused games have experienced.
I feel like you can’t really run a game of any sort without having to deal with a certain amount of whiny, abusive (or attempting to be such) players. I actually think that it’s not that there are MORE of those on a PVP game, but you certainly don’t escape having the same amount.
The ability to kill off other PCs at relative will has never really seemed that I’ve ever seen to encourage politer, less toxic behavior the next time around. I don’t fault the playstyle for that, but human nature.
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RE: Player Ratios
I think a lot of expectations seem reasonable on the surface–if games happened in a vacuum or were run by robots. They do not and are not.
I think everyone is happier in the long run if when they notice that they do not get a response in the amount of time before they start to feel resentful and this seems to be the rule rather than the exception either they need to accept that and play with what they have or it is time to move on.
Staying while mad and steeping in resentment poisons the experience even when it is your turn, and can also affect everyone you are around too. It doesn’t really matter why. If the Could/Should isn’t happening for you, it probably isn’t personal (unless thats your usual experience across different gamerunners and genres, in which case perhaps some introspection is needed). But it is good to make some realistic expectations shifts in how much mental energy and time you want to invest in a game where for whatever reason there’s a mismatch in what you get vs what you feel you’re giving.
And sometimes players need time off to recover from a previous bad experience elsewhere. Few things kill staff or storytelling morale (or player morale) than a player vomiting game trauma dumping all over them and having a huge chip on their shoulder about how other people have wronged them elsewhere and are unable to interact without mentioning it frequently.
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RE: Player Ratios
@STD my experience as staffer and player is that a lot of people say this and mean it, but a lot of people say it and think they mean it but only in very specific ways and will get very upset or just not respond/claim to be railroaded because they didn’t think they voted say no if they ever wanted attention again.
Even having prefs (and I’ve seen that done very thoughtfully and well on a few places!) slides into tricky territory when staff initiates something that alters a character that that character didn’t chase (and let’s be honest, even some chasers still dont like the end result if it doesn’t meet unspoken or even unrealized at the time expectations.)
I am all for prefs and pick me flags though. I just think that unless there’s good personality and crowd control on a game, it’s very hit or miss if utilizing that is going to be actually helpful. I think in part because a lot of people think staff attention for a period will solve their engagement issues with other players, that it will open doors, but I’ve yet to see that happen for people that weren’t capable of doing that on their own. Which leads to more resentment on the temporary spotlighted pc.
It’s just complicated. I love knowing what people’s no go or yes please prefs are as long as theyre honest though!
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RE: Player Ratios
I’ve seen the points for play/spotlight/equity thing tried and floated a lot over the years.
I think it’s easy to understand why that might be desired.
The problem is it never has the effect that the advocates/wishers want. Never.
Not because players or staff suck, but because participation and spotlight is rarely about numbers. Minutes of screentime. Number of mentions in staff posts. Length of title bestowed upon player/character. Number of scenes present. All of that can be a component for feeling engaged, satisfied, or like things are as accessible to you as you see certain other individuals getting–but it doesn’t solve the problem which is largely rooted in feelings and we are all imperfect human beings whose feelings and perceptions may or may not obey the laws of those numbers.
You can’t points calculate your way out of feeling like maybe other people are getting the kind of impact you want and don’t think you’re getting. Racking up and using points or other acquired resources honestly can lead to feeling even more disappointed in the result if it’s not perceived to be “as good as” what a similar group got. I don’t even want to think about the pressure and just real feeling of defeat/morale bust that places on staff.
I saw this play out again and again and again on Arx and other places, with a huge diverse set of people that I perceived to have similar levels of engagement/spotlight complaining about how they got nothing but the other person got everything (sometimes the same people complaining about each other verbatim), or some people being terribly upset about their writeup that at least from my perspective was even better than one I’d gotten, but they were complaining to me that my group got the favorable one. Again, not because ANY of these people were bad (staff or player) but perception and feelings of disappointment are difficult. And storytelling isn’t like knowing you have to earn ex amount of tickets playing skeeball to “win” a laffy taffy or glow in the dark kazoo–maybe you won’t like the spotlight you get, maybe you won’t like the storytelling you get for your plot, maybe both you and the person that you’re wishing you’d gotten their writeup/storytelling are thinking the same thing (and hopefully no one is telling the poor ST this always). I mean hell, I whined about it as much as anyone else too because…well, perception. And humanity.
I think it’s just the human part of our hobby.
So I actually think there’s no magic number to staff to player ratio. I wish staff felt free to not have to numberize things, to feel like they could close down apps or take breaks when they’re feeling overwhelmed and be reasonably certain players would take it with grace. I like it when staff feels free to gently (or firmly) show players that stress them out or drain them too much the door, even if those players haven’t done anything “wrong”, because they’re protecting the staff enjoyment and stress balance.
I think the problem is that people take stuff really personally. I’m not saying I’m a saint and I don’t because I do. Luckily for me I do tend to have great friends on game who are able to tell me that I might need to check my reaction (and I think they tend to tell me that because I’m for the most part good about listening to that, and returning the favor). But like–I don’t think you can build that into an OOC clout/spotlight numbers game.
I get the impulse for people who find it really hard to initiate RP, or find that for whatever reasons they’re passed up for invites in favor of those that to them seem less “deserving.” I really do. I just don’t think there’s an external system that will solve that.
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RE: World Tone / Feeling
As long as the ooc atmosphere is polite to cordial/friendly (prefer it closer to the friendly side), has some boundaries around public ooc/rl oversharing, and where staff helps people who are freaking out because they dont actually like the game leave, I am pretty genre flexible.
I like trying new things as far as theme/world/genre/ic feel!