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Roadspike

@Kestrel It’s definitely a semantic difference, but I also think that it’s an important semantic difference. I think that seeing/using them synonymously can contribute to bleed and to feelings of competition rather than cooperation.

I don’t use CvC instead of PvP, I use it alongside PvP. You can have both on the same game (people working cooperatively OOCly to create a good story of competition between their characters versus people competing OOCly to have their characters win). I don’t even see PvP as a bad thing… it can be really fun sometimes if you’re doing it with folks that you trust. But I do think that it’s valuable to have terms for each, because they’re very different and—to bring things back full circle to the point of the thread—appeal to and bring in players of very different temperaments.

Testament

@real_mirage Erus is still my favorite continent just because of how interesting it was written.

Roz

@NotSanni said:

@Kestrel said:

I’m super unconvinced by the term CvC, tbh. Just seems like a company marketing themselves as “ethical capitalism”, I’m not sure the verbal rebrand makes any kind of difference.

if you’re competing against a player, it’s no longer a cooperative game

i don’t think anyone’s confused about the definitional semantics. i agree with kestrel’s point in that i think both terms aremostly seen synonymously in practice and it doesn’t make any real difference to make up a new, less recognizable term for it. most people when talking about PVP in MUs are already talking about it being an IC thing between characters.

Kestrel

I’m super unconvinced by the term CvC, tbh. Just seems like a company marketing themselves as “ethical capitalism”, I’m not sure the verbal rebrand makes any kind of difference.

Pavel

@MisterBoring said:

referring to PVE as CVE causes me to double take because CVE is a special IT term

Try being a therapist talking about CBT at a kink-friendly clinic…

MisterBoring

@Gashlycrumb Most of the methods I’ve seen used to success were all OOC transparency techniques. Players would have OOC conversations prior to conflict scenes between their characters to coordinate the conflict. It was sort of like pro wrestling in that the scene would be somewhat planned out prior to it starting, but the ultimate end result was left up to the dice (or other mechanics depending on the actual system being used). In some cases, the OOC conversation led to one player deciding that this was definitely their character’s loss, and the entire thing was somewhat pre-planned. Also, in all cases, the end of the session included a decompression exercise so that everybody could properly deal with whatever bleed they might have.

One of the biggest first steps a game can take toward a more healthy CVC environment is to stop calling it PVP. PVP is for Rainbow Six Siege or League of Legends. CVC is one avenue where roleplay meets conflict. CVE is another (though, as an IT professional, referring to PVE as CVE causes me to double take because CVE is a special IT term). I only call it PVP if the story of the characters doesn’t matter at all.

kalakh

I hate all of you.

Testament

@dvoraen said:

@Roz said:

@Apos said:
The Isles of Inferna really aren’t that warm. Pretty mild, actually, depending on the season. Nice sea-breeze.

sounds like a great place for cultivating mangos to make mango vodka

What kind of wood do you think they use there to make their banjos?

something something guano something something

MisterBoring

@Gashlycrumb said:

It’s not uncommon to meet people who say they love PvP. I don’t think I’ve seen them making characters who are in opposition to their PvP loving friends’ characters so they can play that out, but I would presume that it happens on games that are more PvP-friendly than ones I’ve been playing.

Yeah. Most of the games I’ve seen that have been CvC friendly and succeed at it have built up a lot of OOC tools and methods to make that work. I have yet to see the OOC techniques and tools for that really catch on in the MU hobby, but I have seen it work in other online RP formats and in live play (the strongest examples of this were LARPs where workshops and care were given to make sure the players understand that their characters are in conflict where as the players are not).

Pavel

@dvoraen banned-boo

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