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Apos

I think as a medium we tend to err by not reinforcing enough the expectations around roleplay. It is natural to not want to tell people how they should play their characters, but if the expectation is that people should be fun to RP with and not miserable, and you can kind of tell what RP sucks and what doesn’t, I think we do more harm than good by not explicitly saying so.

Ashkuri

@howyadoin I don’t think this works for the context @Yam mentioned, though, which is why I wanted to have the discussion in a purely MUSH context.

I think in MUSH we see a lot of things like:

I’m not leaving the spaceship to go walk on the planet we’re visiting, my guy wouldn’t think it’s safe.
Sorry for making this social scene awkward with both of us here, but my guy wouldn’t forgive their grudge against your guy.
I won’t RP where you suggested. My guy wouldn’t go to that side of town.
Sorry for disrupting this town meeting, but it’s what my guy would do.
My guy already knows that information so I’m not interested in RPing passing it on to others.
I wish I could RP but my guy wouldn’t go out in this weather.
I can’t help you. My guy wouldn’t find that interesting.
Sorry I hurt your feelings with the way I acted IC. It’s what my guy would do.

etc etc etc

Many of the times we run into this, there might not even be a GM involved to say “are you sure” and the actions they’re doing aren’t inherently absurd. The My-Guyer’s actions might even be sensible. Sure, that planet we’re visiting does look dangerous.

As a GM you can definitely say “fine, stay with the ship then, guess you aren’t playing in this event” and as a player you can say things like “well you pick somewhere to RP then,” but the bad vibes are already there at that point. Other people are uncomfortable. Most players don’t want to leave the My-Guy person out. Most My-Guy’ers know that.

My-Guy people disrupt a feeling of collaboration and buy-in that is pretty fundamental to the improv we depend on in this medium. That’s what the top guy in the link is talking about: he got his way, the other players agreed, it was all very “in-character,” and it still felt bad.

catzilla

@Juniper said in Long or Short? Application Process!:

If I have to apply, I’m already gone.

What is an ‘application’ to you?

I probably should have clarified or something my original message.

At least to me, an application is just ‘here is my character’. It could be as simple as a picture (or description) with a 1-3 sentence concept/history. Or as ‘complicated’ as having 20+ stats to keep track of with detailed descriptions of them.

Juniper

@Kestrel Omg, there’s so much pain in these stories.

Kestrel

Said it in the other thread and I stand by it: there’s no wrong or right answer to this, it all depends on the kind of game and the kind of playerbase. @Autumn gave some specific examples that I agree with above.

I think that one of the most frustrating experiences I’ve had in this hobby was some 20 years ago when I tried rolling into Shadows of Isildur. The application process took at least a week all in all and was highly involved. Since I’d never played a RPI before and really didn’t understand how the game worked, I perma-died a couple days in, and obviously never gave the game another chance. I’d probably do just fine nowadays as someone who knows how RPIs work, but eh.

But in contrast, I’ve played games with lots of PvP mystery features, which heavily rely on players actually filling all those details in so that there’s something for other players to uncover if they want to go digging into your character. I’ve spent weeks in chargen on such games and had absolutely no regrets about it; it’s been an intensely rewarding experience. In fact sometimes I’ve enjoyed creating even more than I’ve enjoyed playing. I treat it as a creative writing exercise, which is why I’m in this hobby anyway.

I have also had lots of fun on games with literally 0 chargen process. A friend of mine once ran a custom tabletop campaign where we didn’t even get to pick our characters’ names or powers or backstories. All of our characters woke up together in a lab, with an assigned number-name and amnesia, and discovered who we were and what powers we had as the game progressed. I would just as happily do something like that again, but it obviously doesn’t work for every setting.

My big chargen gripes aren’t about how long it takes, but when it’s designed in a way that seems arbitrary and frustrating. For instance, I hate having to pick between ten slightly different, identical-sounding options for a skill. Like if I have to choose between whether to put points into Karate, Krav Maga, Kung Fu, Taekwondo or Jiu-Jitsu, and I have no idea how badly that choice is gonna fuck me down the line if I pick wrong, I already hate your game before I’ve started playing. Just let me pick “Martial Arts” as a stat if that’s my concept, and maybe customise it in character notes with the specifics. I’ve seen this justified as “well we don’t want everyone to have the same build”, but idc, it just smells like a newbie trap. The chargen process should be as intuitive as possible, limit any mechanical advantages that a veteran player could have for making more meta choices, and not encourage/require more work than will end up paying off.

On the writing side, this also means not having too many “optional” customisation fields that feel like a requirement if they aren’t, or that are asking for subtle variations of the same thing. For instance, you shouldn’t multiple separate textboxes for backstory, history, summary, personality, quirks, hooks. Like … what? I just got finished writing all about how my character’s upbringing in a monastery instilled them religious fervour, now you want me to write another paragraph about their personality, and then repeat that in a catchier way for hooks? This could’ve been 1 box. Or, if the description section is broken up into a bunch of different fields so I can describe my face, eyebrows, hair, fingers, toes, butt, all separately, and then also my hoodie, what the hoodie looks like on the floor, what my hoodie looks like with the hood up, and what other people see when I’m putting it on and taking it off … but THEN after I put all that work in, I discover it’s actually some kind of faux pas to have filled everything in, and I should’ve just picked 1 or 2 of these fields … f u, ur community, ur game, this is also a newbie trap. Don’t put these fields there if filling in every single one isn’t an expectation; and ideally, don’t have these fields at all if they add nothing that RP won’t. I mean I can just write, as needed: “Kestrel walks in, bundled up in a loose hoodie. Shivering, she lifts up her French-manicured fingers to pull the hood up over her long, dark hair.”

Other than that, I am happy to take as long as needed to ensure my app is up to the game’s standards/expectations. I don’t see vetting by staff as a hindrance; if they’re willing to make the time for it, I often find it beneficial to get communicating early on about how to ensure the best possible experience with my character for both of us. This is often better than rolling in and discovering only after that your concept doesn’t actually work.

Ashkuri

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/37103/what-is-my-guy-syndrome-and-how-do-i-handle-it

Interesting Q&A from 12 years ago that still seems to apply. What do you think about “my guy syndrome” and handling it, in a MUSH and not LARP or Tabletop context?

somasatori

I tend to write a lot as a general rule, since I (like @MisterBoring) am one of those “write till I’m done” types, so my most recent apps are enormous because I’ve been really interested in the character’s until-now development. That’s just me, though, and it could easily just be a short story I write for myself without forcing anyone to read.

Anyway, that said, I think the app process should be similar to a mullet: short in the front, long in the back. Shorter app to get in and involved, with the idea that the character’s background info is a kind of living document, to a point, that can be fleshed out by making connections and associations either with other players or with ongoing plots.

somasatori

@Jennkryst said in Numetal/Retromux:

Then there’s my dumb ass, logging into the 16 year old account on Shadowrun Denver to see about unlocking Otaku after a decade-old bit of fuckery.

To be fair, Jenn, I feel like the act of asking about unplayable/disallowed character types is kind of your version of MUSHing.

Roadspike

Like several posters above, I’ve come around to the idea that an app should be as short as it can be… while also demonstrating knowledge, understanding, and ability to work within the themes, setting, and mechanics.

I’m a big fan of bullet points, and of Staff providing a list of details that they want to know (“why is your character in this location,” “how did gaining magic affect your character,” “how are they connected to the game described in our mission statement” for example). I want to see that the character will be able to interact with other characters (don’t send me a loner app unless you’re also sending me info on how they’re going to get out of their shell), and how they’ll fit within what Staff wants the game to be.

And I want it all in bullet points, as short as possible to get that information across.

Pavel

@Noraaa There’s a button that says “Reply” at the top. Use that one. Reply at the bottom is to reply to that specific post.

T	Tez
P	Pavel
L	Lain Iwakura
R	ririsaru
M	MisterBoring
J	Jenn
C	catzilla
C	Cobalt
C	chilling
S	somasatori
S	sonata
L	Laurel
K	KQ
U	untitled
B	bored
B	Belle
M	mudcirclejerk
M	Mercutio
N	Narrator
R	Rucket

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