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Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo
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@Lurrr I’m not saying anything about Jackaltrade because they freely offered to out themselves by providing their information, but I would like to normalize not showing receipts. It’s occasionally traumatizing to relive that kind of thing, it’s almost always humiliating to show yourself getting degraded, and it’s very likely to result in retaliation from the accused who want to show receipts of how actually she totally asked for it. Let people give the amount of information they feel safe giving, and let the people who receive these kinds of freely-offered warnings either take the warning or not. I don’t think it’s fair to take the experience these people have gone through and add to it a burden of accepting responsibility for meeting the standards strangers need to be convinced.
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I’m not downplaying the experience, and I certainly wouldn’t want someone to be in such a shitty position. But, I feel putting people on blast should be done with a tremendous amount of solid blast.
Again, I’m not trying to downplay, merely express it how I, myself, experience it. If my eyes are treated with something solid, I’m not hearing it from you, Jack, John, Joe and Sally. I’m seeing it, as it’s presented, from the source. I’m not a fan of the telephone game.
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@Lurrr Why would a victim want to identify and out oneself, opening themselves up to any potential danger or revenge that comes with it, without good reason? The post read “if necessary” in terms of providing receipts. If there are admin who want to verify receipts to take action, great. But outing oneself publicly just to satisfy curiosity? That can be legitimately dangerous. There is a time to share that information and that evidence, but it isn’t something that is obligated to satisfy just anyone’s curiosity. Posts like these are not made lightly. As someone who has had very real RL repercussions from animosity on MU, anonymity is the standard until no other options remain.
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@Lurrr said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@Jackaltrade said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@kopecup I am one of the players mentioned. Kopecup posted about my experience with permission from me. I don’t really engage with the MU-ing community at large but in the interest of keeping this community fun and safe, I feel like I need to. I can confirm it happened. I have receipts if that becomes necessary. I will put my name out if necessary. This behavior is beyond the pale and it needs to be called out and corrected, or at least a fair warning for the community at large.
I would like to see receipts, and I would ask anytime we (as a community) run into this behavior that just becomes the norm. It’ll save anyone the trouble of being doubted or other parties to scheme, etc.
Lurrr
Joined about 3 hours agoAnd how are you related to the situation?
Clearly you made the account to comment on this, and not to just muse on ways we (as a community) should handle things.fr fr
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As said by pretty much every single abusive asshole ever.
Which one of the people mentioned are you?
eta: even if they did show their receipts, it wouldn’t be good enough. then it would be time to nitpick, gaslight, go after the character of the witness, explain how they asked for and/or deserved it, or how they were fine with it right up until they posted and–and every other silencing tactic you can think of to possibly throw at it. We know your game. We don’t play it here.
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Just gonna put it out there that I believe the OP and the players’ experiences they’re talking about 100%. It’s been a minute since I was there and I wasn’t on AoA for very long, but that is one game with a particularly bizarre staff culture and game culture, and Hadrix just had that vibe. If you’re looking for a Star Wars experience, I’d recommend you look elsewhere.
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Obviously, receipts are handy but they’re not a requirement. And I’d (speaking only for myself, though with a polite nod in the direction of that Admin tag) rather not make posting every shred of evidence possible the expectation here.
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I may not know Kopecup from a bar of soap, but I’ve lurked long enough to see familiar names I trust saying “Yeah, this checks out in my own experience.” I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me that’s kinda all I need to know.
If someone says “I saw this bird at the lake and it walked and talked and looked like a duck. And I just wanted to make sure you all knew it was a duck”, and people I trust are saying “Yeah I’ve been to that lake, I know that bird you mean and it definitely seemed like a duck to me” then I’m going to happily assume it’s a duck.
And if by some unlikely twist of fate it turns out to be a pigeon and not a duck and aaaaall those people just happened to be making shit up for no good reason? Well, this isn’t a court of law and the pigeon isn’t going to end up in duck prison so I’d prefer to assume the far more likely scenario that the victims are in fact victims rather than create an environment where they are too scared to speak up because they feel like nobody’s going to believe them unless they publicize a bunch of embarrassing and uncomfortable receipts.
ETA: Missed the opportunity to try add a ‘fowl’ pun in there somewhere… :C
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@kopecup I use to play here and when that player did not get their way they would lose it! I have stories, but I belive this totally! I’m sorry to hear it happened to anyone!
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Based on how they also reacted towards ex-lovers in Arx, also not a surprise.
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@GF GF you are right I second the FUCK RECEIPTS! Victims should not have to be victimized more to defend how something made them feel! I get it, we want to see the best but at this point in this hobby, let’s be real it’s the same fucking monsters over and over again!
(edit to be more clear)
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@BloodAngel In the LARP community, we do something called “flagging” before a LARP in which we circulate the info about the players ahead of time and generally ask for people to weigh in with one of three flags:
Yellow Flag - I don’t believe this person is generally unsafe, but I don’t want to interact with this person (Staff can make sure that there are no ties between the two and do their best to avoid even secondary connections)
Orange Flag - I don’t believe this person is generally unsafe, but I will not play the game if that person is there. (In cases like this, as the players are pulled in to fill the slots from the applicant pool whichever gets in first gets in)
Red Flag - This person is unsafe to play with. (Investigation to determine whether the person should not be allowed to play.)
No receipts are ever asked for the first two, and no receipts are required for the last one, although a brief explanation helps so they can determine how to move forward. There are cases from time to time where someone will false red flag someone, but those are very few and far between and word of that gets around. If someone takes the step to Red Flag someone, they are usually on point and often for reasons they don’t want to relive.
The sorts of people who need to get Red Flagged are also generally the sort of people who are VERY good at manipulating, and so they will have counter receipts anyway and sometimes those are more damaging than the initial offense. So receipts are a very tricky subject.
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The sorts of people who need to get Red Flagged are also generally the sort of people who are VERY good at manipulating, and so they will have counter receipts anyway and sometimes those are more damaging than the initial offense. So receipts are a very tricky subject.
I never really considered this, or the harmful effects it would have on the person.
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Lurrr
Joined about 3 hours agoAnd how are you related to the situation?
Clearly you made the account to comment on this, and not to just muse on ways we (as a community) should handle things.Oh, I was shown this and sort of just stopped signing into AoA for a variety of reasons. Some was the weird sex-pest thing I was dealing with (it was a specific, snuffy type and just threw me off. Idk how they kept sniffing me out.) But I’ll put anyone on blast who deserves it. I just never really considered how shitty it is from the other side to bring up the screenshots/receipts/etc.
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@mangosplitz Totally. If you can get away with it, you have personality traits.
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@BloodAngel The problem is that some of the skills that make someone a good storyteller or role player (knowing how to evoke an emotional response in someone) are the same ones that can be used to manipulate someone OOCly as well.
So at least in the communities I run in, you can end up with a Magnificent Bastard who is adored by many because they are REALLY EFFING GOOD at what they do, and are also really good at hiding who they really are from the people they are not being kind to.
Which is in some respects what it sounds like here - someone good at running scenes is “popular”, which makes criticism of them harder or not as impactful.
It’s always intimidating to try to bring up an accusation against someone who is perceived to have a lot of friends. Especially if the victim is going to be expected to bring receipts and justifications, because you will often get a cascade of “Well he was always perfectly nice to me” to counter balance what the victim is going through. Just because someone is nice to you doesn’t mean they aren’t a rat bastard to someone else.
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@mangosplitz said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@BloodAngel The problem is that some of the skills that make someone a good storyteller or role player (knowing how to evoke an emotional response in someone) are the same ones that can be used to manipulate someone OOCly as well.
Correlation does not equal causation; there are many invaluable skillsets, both related to MU* and otherwise, which could technically be used to manipulate others.
However there is a definite causation between players who leverage their useful attributes - and being willing to run PrPs is a fairly common one in this context - to influence staff and help mitigate risks related to harassing others.
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@mangosplitz said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
a Magnificent Bastard
As a person who loves this trope more than certain family members, I’d like to distance it from any kind of predation please thank you. >_>
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@mangosplitz said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
The sorts of people who need to get Red Flagged are also generally the sort of people who are VERY good at manipulating, and so they will have counter receipts anyway and sometimes those are more damaging than the initial offense. So receipts are a very tricky subject.
As Jethro Gibbs would say, “trust but verify”. It doesn’t have to be public to all, but if games don’t substantiate claims, it will allow accusations to be weaponized for any type of grievance. It only takes one false accusation to be acted on to break down the trust of an entire community in all directions and destroy the environment.
Trust but verify.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
It only takes one false accusation to be acted on to break down the trust of an entire community in all directions and destroy the environment
So how many instances would you say it takes to ruin community trust when the event is someone being harassed and made to feel unsafe and unwelcome?
Being banned from a game is not being sent to jail.
