Neo Draconis: Embrace the Weird - Discussion

[Raeras]

I’ve gone ahead and removed it for now and if something comes up in the future where I feel like handles (in some capacity) for everyone are necessary, I’ll address it then.

[Third Eye]

In addition to my not really understanding the reasoning behind it initially, mostly I don’t see the point, since you can just make a new handle on a new character anyway. My experience is that bad actors who you know are out there aren’t particularly good at hiding or changing their behavior if they’re still going to be a problem, so either way you’ll figure out what’s what.

I do think changing this policy was a good idea so props on listening to feedback.

[Raeras]

@Third-Eye said in Neo Draconis: Embrace the Weird - Discussion:

…My experience is that bad actors who you know are out there aren’t particularly good at hiding or changing their behavior if they’re still going to be a problem, so either way you’ll figure out what’s what…

This is so 100% true. I have had situations where I’m like ‘I know that’s got to be XYZ’ and sure enough it comes to light that it was indeed XYZ. So yeah, like I said, it sounded good when I wrote it but I’m not going to die on that hill lol

[STD]

Thank you so much for the response, @Raeras.

I’m definitely glad to see it’s one of the policies that you’re not married to, since the language involved (“You will only receive one warning”) seemed to indicate it was a hardline stance.

I think, in my mind, it stems from issues with troublemakers and bad actors in the past and the idea that knowing who you’re playing with from the jump has some kind of…I can’t think of the right word but it can put people at ease? If that makes sense.

This might be redundant now that you’ve reconsidered the policy, but I’ll make a comment about this anyway as a sort of reference for the future.

I’ve never seen an attempt like this actually benefit the victims of bad actors or troublemakers; it is always the opposite. Since bad actors and troublemakers will be happy to circumvent any attempt at linking the person to the character, but those who follow the rules will be inexorably linked, this means that the only ones who benefit from such a system are those bad actors and troublemakers who can identify and target previous victims or those they have grudges against while remaining anonymous themselves. Yeah, their behavior will eventually tell, but you’re putting your other players at risk until that happens. It’s a recipe for disaster and I’ve seen it happen every. Single. Time.

This sort of thing (among others) is why I have a pretty staunch no-outside-game contact or link-to-player policy and also why I take pains to compartmentalize and isolate every game I play. Maybe I’m a weird freak for doing this, but it has helped me navigate the shoals of MU*ing pretty peacefully ever since I enacted this personal policy of mine.

So I hope this illuminates why some would have a huge problem with this policy should you consider it again in the future.

Thanks again for the response! It’s great to see a game runner responding so well!

[Raeras]

@STD I absolutely understand where you’re coming from and I appreciate you airing your concern and adding your two cents. I think you make a good point too about the bad actors and victims being easier to target.

Like I mentioned above I can see reasons why people wouldn’t want to link a handle as well since I’ve been in that situation myself. So having another set of eyes go ‘wait, what? Why?’ and making me see I didn’t really have good reason at to ‘why’ was very helpful!

[Tributary]

@Raeras I am also running an Ares game and was tempted to institute a similar policy. I decided that trying to do that was too much like herding cats, and that I’d just encourage people to do it instead.

And it was mostly so that I could sort of keep track of who in our Discord was who on the game, because that gets confusing fast. The trouble is, since the game posts the important channels to the Discord, there’s really no need to be on Discord if you don’t want to be.

Now all I need is a way to link the forums to the Discord so that my game co-runner will not just post things to Discord and will also post on the game. Much laziness there.

[Roz]

@STD said in Neo Draconis: Embrace the Weird - Discussion:

I’ve never seen an attempt like this actually benefit the victims of bad actors or troublemakers; it is always the opposite. Since bad actors and troublemakers will be happy to circumvent any attempt at linking the person to the character, but those who follow the rules will be inexorably linked, this means that the only ones who benefit from such a system are those bad actors and troublemakers who can identify and target previous victims or those they have grudges against while remaining anonymous themselves. Yeah, their behavior will eventually tell, but you’re putting your other players at risk until that happens. It’s a recipe for disaster and I’ve seen it happen every. Single. Time.

I think this was the salient point. I know at least one person who doesn’t keep an Ares handle specifically to avoid being followed around by another player they don’t want to engage with. There are real and legitimate reasons why good actors won’t necessarily want to identify themselves in that sort of way.

But it felt really good to read through this thread and see @Raeras listening to the concerns, being thoughtful, and adjusting course. It’s always nice to see a thread feel actively constructive like this.

[Third Eye]

I will say I get the temptation because I have, with my own eyeballs, seen people I know are repeat offenders obfuscate themselves by not using handles. It’s a thing people do.

This feels like an attempt to find a code solution for a thing that just requires proactive staffing, though. And a really imperfect code solution that will be easily worked around.

I like handles for the social networking function of them and always link mine, but there are lots of good reasons not to, including not wanting people to follow you around, or just to want to try on a new skin on a game you don’t know will work without the ‘commitment’ of letting a bunch of people know you play there.

[Faraday]

@Third-Eye said in Neo Draconis: Embrace the Weird - Discussion:

I will say I get the temptation because I have, with my own eyeballs, seen people I know are repeat offenders obfuscate themselves by not using handles. It’s a thing people do.

Known repeat offenders also obfuscate themselves by just creating a new handle, though. Even IP blocking isn’t particularly effective in the modern era of ten-cent VPNs.

But props to Raeras for being open-minded about it.

[Raeras]

I just wanted to drop another note here thanking everyone for their insights on this and @STD for starting the discussion. I am a ‘worst case scenario’ kind of person and wasn’t really expecting anyone (or very few people) to join ND but we have 17 registered bits (including myself and 1 alt) and people are really running with the idea and creating things to make it their own.

And I really don’t think that would be happening if I still had the Handle policy in place. So thank you