Hello.

First, thanks to @Snackness for helping spread the word.

To answer @L-B-Heuschkel; yes. Staff on the game in question have been made aware and are conducting their own investigation.

I know that the ‘trust the process’ line isn’t going to be all that comforting to a lot of people in light of everything that’s happened, but I’m giving the game a fair chance to work their process as well as the player in question a fair chance without smearing them with the DWOPP label. Receipts are being gathered and analyzed, and will be presented when there’s harder evidence than ‘I got a bad feeling here…’ All there are at the moment are behavioral patterns that match. Could be DWOPP, could be some other/new toxic player. Theno and I had a conversation on MUHaven last night with a newer MUSHer who liked the idea of a completely ‘no-holds barred’ game and didn’t see anything wrong in emotional manipulation of players. No accusations, just that IMO, the hobby tends to attract players of all sorts, good and bad.

Like I said in the post, this is just the smoke alarm going off. There could be a fire, there might not be. I just think it’s better for Staff and Players to be aware that DWOPP, or someone like them, might be back active again.

@Pavel I agree. And again…where did I say anything more than 'DWOPP might be back again," without naming names and locations? Where did I give a clue of the player in question or the game before ZG and Lithium spoke up?

If we can’t even give a general ‘heads up’ while actively keeping names and locations out of the conversation, then what’s even the point of trying to warn the community of potentially toxic behavior. You’re giving the abuser what they need: time to embed themselves further for whatever purpose is their goal.

Toxic behavior was observed. Staff was alerted. The community was alerted to be on guard, like a neighborhood being warned that someone’s house was broken into and the police are investigating. No names were disclosed. The investigation was allowed to proceed and was concluded.

Bottom line: I will never make an accusation of ‘so-and-so is doing this…’ without proof. I accept that not everyone is going to interpret POV the same way, which is why I try to give a ‘heads up’ while things are still being investigated by Staff.

Or would you rather that everyone just stay silent and ignore the potential of someone acting sus and letting them keep doing what they’re doing?

@Coin said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Roz said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Coin said in DWOPP-spotting:

Did some snooping.

The player banned was Lithium@MSB. Def not DWOPP or anything close to it.

My experience of Lithium is indeed not the same brand of issues as DWOPP generally. But they certainly have their own brand of problematic behavior and have been banned from at least one other game for it, so I don’t know that it’s necessarily shady if they ended up banned again.

From what I know, this banning was done in haste, thus shady. That doesn’t mean they’re the type of person you want on your game, of course. What I consider shady is that by all accounts, Lithium was banned after they reported behavior from someone else who was also banned. It was all more of a ‘let’s just ban the whole lot’.

Which is fine, I guess, just not my style.

The fuller story…

Yes, Macha was the initial point of complaint and also became banned, but to my understanding, that ban was for not pausing in their complaint to the HeadWiz for a full day, after he expressly asked her to back off and give him time to think and investigate. Not the same level at all.

Also, my response to Lithium’s post on MSB…

Runescryer ADMIN 11 minutes ago
@Lithium said in The All-New Down With OPP Thread:

@Runescryer Warren Worthington, aka Angel, has money. He backed many teams in the comics, and bankrolled many things. I didn’t pay for anyones college tuition, I bought a dress for someone, let someone borrow a car, and was founding a comics team, like he had done many times in the comic books. Playing a wealthy character doesn’t make someone DWOPP and thems fightin’ words.

Please point out where I publicly outed you as DOPP; here, BMD, Discord, anywhere. I went out of my way to keep your handle out of this while @ZombieGenesis investigated. I never mentioned your MSB handle (which I didn’t know) or you Ares handle. While we did have our rough encounters, and I’ll take my equal share of the blame for that, I never mentioned your character name or any other means of directly identifying you, much less the game this was on.

You outed yourself.

And since you have, here’s the receipts for people to independently examine your interactions and decide for themselves.

https://infiniteadventuresmush.com/char/Warren

NOTE: All logs up to 9/21/22 are the ones @Lithium participated in.

If you want, I can also post my log of our OOC chat when things got bought up.

Since we’re on the subject, how about discussing you putting Betsy on full blast around the X-Mansion, accusing her of endangering everyone by way of her relationship with Tony and revealing herself as a mutant, when with your last scene, you did the exact. Same. Thing, With Lois; rescuing her from a dangerous situation and revealing that you were a mutant to her.

Let’s talk about how you only really started working on the Champions after I started organizing the initial Avengers Event.

Let’s talk about how after people started pointing out you playing Warren as a completely spoiled asshole (a valid interpretation, BTW), you suddenly came up with getting ‘evil infected’ in the Limbo scene, hinting that you’re being corrupted by something you had suddenly encountered there. You specifically mentioned an ‘evil Warren phase’ you were going through in Chat, leading to speculation that you were setting up some kind of ‘immaculate cleansing’ later that could excuse away all your bad behaviors.

Want more receipts, I got 'em. Part of the nice thing about Ares: automatic record keeping & storage.

I can even provide conversations I had with Staff where I was advised to boot Lobo from the Avengers Event because it was a ‘joke’ sign-up. Also, where I stuck to my guns about it being an Event free for anyone to participate in; Marvel or DC, legacy Avenger or otherwise.

Let’s talk about your ‘I’m just asking questions, here’ defense about you suggesting (in a private 1 on 1 scene, granted) to Jean that Tony Stark manufactures Anti-Mutant Weapons. Yeah, that pissed me off; the ‘I’m not touching you’ whisper campaign you were starting. After our OOC conversation, I was still willing to adapt to that point of view you put out there and adapt it into part of Stane’s betrayal while Tony was a captive.

All of this behavior from you started when Betsy spurned your advances in RP; the billionaire pissing contest, the whispers about Betsy in the X-Sphere, the sudden idea of creating the Champions.

Face it, man…I won’t deny that others gave you shovels, but you dug this hole all on your own, here.

@Coin Pattern Recognition is kind of speculation. I don’t need to know that the 18-wheeler a few cars ahead of me slamming on it’s brakes is going to crash before swerving to avoid something that might not happen.

And, yes. It’s because it was speculation that I didn’t mention names or locations as of yet. I was giving a general warning, specifically for a possible DWOPP return, but also as a general ‘watch your games because we’ve got an active creeper’. ZG stepped forward with the identity of the game; Lithium outed themselves when nobody was directly accusing him. I feel confident in trying to maintain as much annominity of those involved as possible. If Lithium hadn’t made his public protest, I would have accepted the results of ZG’s investigation and said “The person in question isn’t DWOPP, but is still showing signs of toxic behavior,” and kept the general warning.

@Lithium said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Runescryer

I.
Am.
Not.
A.
HIM.

My honest apologies. I didn’t know. And even unintentionally, deadnaming.misgendering is wrong.

@Selira I said an investigation was ongoing. I admitted there was no proof as of yet at the time being.

Again, Lithum self-identified himself. He was afforded the right to remain silent. He chose not to take it.

@Pavel Who. Announced. It. Was. Lithium?

Please. Answer the question.

@Coin Seriously. I mentioned DWOPP might be back. That’s it. I can accept the POV that I shouted FIRE in a theater, okay. But I never identified who might have started it. No, not Billy Joel.

Again, my POV…

Me: Someone’s smashing car windows in the neighborhood; we don’t know who and the police are investigating.

Unknown Window Smasher: HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF SMASHING WINDOWS!?!?

The consensus seems to be that we don’t want to alert people to potential threats, without naming names, because the person committing the offenses might get their feelings hurt when the investigation wraps up.

@Pavel Again…

Please point out where I said that DOPP=Lithium?

@Coin I knew the Ares handle, because that’s always been in the profile. I didn’t know it was Lithium, because there was no indication of their MSB handle.

And while I don’t use my Ares handle, also @runescryer I believe, I’ve been open to players whose Ares handles match accounts that I recognize. I’ve approached a couple of players first, in that way.

@Pavel I agree. And again…where did I say anything more than 'DWOPP might be back again," without naming names and locations? Where did I give a clue of the player in question or the game before ZG and Lithium spoke up?

If we can’t even give a general ‘heads up’ while actively keeping names and locations out of the conversation, then what’s even the point of trying to warn the community of potentially toxic behavior. You’re giving the abuser what they need: time to embed themselves further for whatever purpose is their goal.

Toxic behavior was observed. Staff was alerted. The community was alerted to be on guard, like a neighborhood being warned that someone’s house was broken into and the police are investigating. No names were disclosed. The investigation was allowed to proceed and was concluded.

Bottom line: I will never make an accusation of ‘so-and-so is doing this…’ without proof. I accept that not everyone is going to interpret POV the same way, which is why I try to give a ‘heads up’ while things are still being investigated by Staff.

Or would you rather that everyone just stay silent and ignore the potential of someone acting sus and letting them keep doing what they’re doing?

@Coin Pattern Recognition is kind of speculation. I don’t need to know that the 18-wheeler a few cars ahead of me slamming on it’s brakes is going to crash before swerving to avoid something that might not happen.

And, yes. It’s because it was speculation that I didn’t mention names or locations as of yet. I was giving a general warning, specifically for a possible DWOPP return, but also as a general ‘watch your games because we’ve got an active creeper’. ZG stepped forward with the identity of the game; Lithium outed themselves when nobody was directly accusing him. I feel confident in trying to maintain as much annominity of those involved as possible. If Lithium hadn’t made his public protest, I would have accepted the results of ZG’s investigation and said “The person in question isn’t DWOPP, but is still showing signs of toxic behavior,” and kept the general warning.

@Coin said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Roz said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Coin said in DWOPP-spotting:

Did some snooping.

The player banned was Lithium@MSB. Def not DWOPP or anything close to it.

My experience of Lithium is indeed not the same brand of issues as DWOPP generally. But they certainly have their own brand of problematic behavior and have been banned from at least one other game for it, so I don’t know that it’s necessarily shady if they ended up banned again.

From what I know, this banning was done in haste, thus shady. That doesn’t mean they’re the type of person you want on your game, of course. What I consider shady is that by all accounts, Lithium was banned after they reported behavior from someone else who was also banned. It was all more of a ‘let’s just ban the whole lot’.

Which is fine, I guess, just not my style.

The fuller story…

Yes, Macha was the initial point of complaint and also became banned, but to my understanding, that ban was for not pausing in their complaint to the HeadWiz for a full day, after he expressly asked her to back off and give him time to think and investigate. Not the same level at all.

Also, my response to Lithium’s post on MSB…

Runescryer ADMIN 11 minutes ago
@Lithium said in The All-New Down With OPP Thread:

@Runescryer Warren Worthington, aka Angel, has money. He backed many teams in the comics, and bankrolled many things. I didn’t pay for anyones college tuition, I bought a dress for someone, let someone borrow a car, and was founding a comics team, like he had done many times in the comic books. Playing a wealthy character doesn’t make someone DWOPP and thems fightin’ words.

Please point out where I publicly outed you as DOPP; here, BMD, Discord, anywhere. I went out of my way to keep your handle out of this while @ZombieGenesis investigated. I never mentioned your MSB handle (which I didn’t know) or you Ares handle. While we did have our rough encounters, and I’ll take my equal share of the blame for that, I never mentioned your character name or any other means of directly identifying you, much less the game this was on.

You outed yourself.

And since you have, here’s the receipts for people to independently examine your interactions and decide for themselves.

https://infiniteadventuresmush.com/char/Warren

NOTE: All logs up to 9/21/22 are the ones @Lithium participated in.

If you want, I can also post my log of our OOC chat when things got bought up.

Since we’re on the subject, how about discussing you putting Betsy on full blast around the X-Mansion, accusing her of endangering everyone by way of her relationship with Tony and revealing herself as a mutant, when with your last scene, you did the exact. Same. Thing, With Lois; rescuing her from a dangerous situation and revealing that you were a mutant to her.

Let’s talk about how you only really started working on the Champions after I started organizing the initial Avengers Event.

Let’s talk about how after people started pointing out you playing Warren as a completely spoiled asshole (a valid interpretation, BTW), you suddenly came up with getting ‘evil infected’ in the Limbo scene, hinting that you’re being corrupted by something you had suddenly encountered there. You specifically mentioned an ‘evil Warren phase’ you were going through in Chat, leading to speculation that you were setting up some kind of ‘immaculate cleansing’ later that could excuse away all your bad behaviors.

Want more receipts, I got 'em. Part of the nice thing about Ares: automatic record keeping & storage.

I can even provide conversations I had with Staff where I was advised to boot Lobo from the Avengers Event because it was a ‘joke’ sign-up. Also, where I stuck to my guns about it being an Event free for anyone to participate in; Marvel or DC, legacy Avenger or otherwise.

Let’s talk about your ‘I’m just asking questions, here’ defense about you suggesting (in a private 1 on 1 scene, granted) to Jean that Tony Stark manufactures Anti-Mutant Weapons. Yeah, that pissed me off; the ‘I’m not touching you’ whisper campaign you were starting. After our OOC conversation, I was still willing to adapt to that point of view you put out there and adapt it into part of Stane’s betrayal while Tony was a captive.

All of this behavior from you started when Betsy spurned your advances in RP; the billionaire pissing contest, the whispers about Betsy in the X-Sphere, the sudden idea of creating the Champions.

Face it, man…I won’t deny that others gave you shovels, but you dug this hole all on your own, here.

Hello.

First, thanks to @Snackness for helping spread the word.

To answer @L-B-Heuschkel; yes. Staff on the game in question have been made aware and are conducting their own investigation.

I know that the ‘trust the process’ line isn’t going to be all that comforting to a lot of people in light of everything that’s happened, but I’m giving the game a fair chance to work their process as well as the player in question a fair chance without smearing them with the DWOPP label. Receipts are being gathered and analyzed, and will be presented when there’s harder evidence than ‘I got a bad feeling here…’ All there are at the moment are behavioral patterns that match. Could be DWOPP, could be some other/new toxic player. Theno and I had a conversation on MUHaven last night with a newer MUSHer who liked the idea of a completely ‘no-holds barred’ game and didn’t see anything wrong in emotional manipulation of players. No accusations, just that IMO, the hobby tends to attract players of all sorts, good and bad.

Like I said in the post, this is just the smoke alarm going off. There could be a fire, there might not be. I just think it’s better for Staff and Players to be aware that DWOPP, or someone like them, might be back active again.