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Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo
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You dead-ass actually provided a Merriam-Webster definition of ‘Echo Chamber’ as your lead-in and expect anyone to take you seriously past that point?
Gosh, hearts and minds have surely been changed on this day.
You did it.
Take a victory lap.
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@Meg I appreciate your comment, thank you.
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@mietze I think this is really well written and conveys some of my own experience regarding things in other games. I won’t detract from the point of this discussion to elaborate, but to your point I’ve been where you are, too
Regarding the two named in this discussion however, from my own experience, I’ve not seen this behavior. I think admin have a tendency to come across aloof sometimes, but I also don’t know what bigger picture they’re seeing, either. Or agenda, etc.
I came into the conversation here because no one spoke about what was good about AoA, as it all seemed oriented toward the bad. I agree my approach was was not the best, but who is perfect in our world. I don’t think AoA fosters this environment the others are referencing. I don’t think the staff are intentionally malicious either. That’s just my perspective. I think there are people who certainly abuse the system though, (not just in AoA, but wholly).
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@Das-Auto Name the names and spill the tea (edit: if you so desire), no need to protect an abuser.
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@eddie yeah, I mean, if I ran Game A and people were like ‘Meg is a huge enabler of people being sex pests on her game’, the thread wouldn’t also include, ‘But she’s incredibly funny.’
The focus of the topic isn’t on what’s good. it’s what needs to be done better.
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@Das-Auto You’re under no obligation to actually name names unless that’s a fight you’re interested in getting into. I don’t think anyone here is under any illusions, and I doubt this game will be attracting many new players from this board.
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@helvetica But this is kind of my point. I’m not sure I agree that ‘being banned from a MUSH’ is actual harm.
The rest of this post is not necessarily a direct response, just thoughts that have been brewing this evening.
I don’t think any of this happens in a vacuum. Let’s say that reputational loss is a form of harm. If someone comes to me on a game I’m running and says ‘Hey, X is a sex pest’, the first thing I’ll do is talk to X.
Their response is usually pretty indicative of whether or not there’s substance to the accusations. If it’s “Oh god, I didn’t realise I was coming across like that, I’ll go apologise immediately”, that’s a very different response to “Well I said some things that toed the line but wow they’re so sensitive.” In the former case I’d probably give them the benefit of the doubt, in the latter I’d probably kick them out immediately. I still might keep an eye on them in the former case, and if more people come to me and say “Hey I don’t like X’s vibe, and they did these things too” I may reconsider my original decision.
The problem with the idea that “if you accuse someone they’ll immediately be ostracised from all their communities” is it’s not actually true? Like if someone came forwards and said “Hey Rath is a sex pest and he’s been pressuring me for TS,” I’d expect that my friends and the games I play on would go “hey what’s up with this?” and not knee-jerk kick me out of everything, but if I gave them shitty answers then they’d show me the door. I certainly wouldn’t kick out a long-standing friend over a single accusation on a MU board without talking to them first.
If you’re kicked out of a community from a single accusation on an internet forum? Well, chances are that there were many more accusations you didn’t see, and/or the community already had a vibe about you. Or, maybe the community was just not worth being part of in the first place, because yes, sometimes communities do just suck.
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@helvetica That part. Name names, if you want to*, I should have said. Apologies that it came off otherwise.
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@Meg But on the other side of the coin, it’s not the game that’s the problem. It’s people. Some people take issue with those named, others take issue with other players (like I had), and if everyone was just cast out, no one would rp anywhere! I’m sorry that others have had a negative experience there, I do think there’s an opportunity for growth, and I hope that through meaningful conversation, that happens.
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@eddie I would argue that a problem with staff and the Head of Staff is, in itself, a game problem. It’s a fundamental problem with the game.
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@Meg I think it’s a good point you’re making, but the other side is I can’t provide you proof that this is the case. I’m not implying anything about anyone by asking this, but what if the possibility exists that none of this is true? As an innocent bystander playing in the game under the purview of these people, I can’t make an informed decision without a measure of risk of it being true or false.
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@eddie And that is well within your right to do. Just like anyone reading this thread. They see what’s been said and by who, and they are going to judge it based on their own experiences of either the game or the people.
Hence why we said that testimony is a form of evidence, not a complete form of truth. Personally, I take into the fact that many people who don’t appear to know each other and are saying the same things is a little more weighted in truth than you might, as someone who plays the game and hasn’t been subjected to this.
It doesn’t mean that because you haven’t seen it that it’s not true, by the way. It just means that you haven’t seen it. But we all saw what Hadrix said on channel, in that log. That wasn’t even a denial. That was a ‘I have toed the line and apologized before, so bitches can’t be mad’, right there. So again, I believe what I have read here.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
But on the other side of the coin, it’s not the game that’s the problem.
It is the head of the game that fosters the environment creating the issue being addressed in this thread. If the leader of that game would actually take steps to protect players this wouldn’t be an issue. This is an issue because instead of addressing the problem, Cujo has promoted Hadrix to staff and empowered that abuse. That is a game problem.
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@Meg That’s totally fair. I acknowledge people are incorporating their own experiences in this. My experience just differs, and I appreciate that there might be a side of it I haven’t witnessed. My own testimony is that it’s not something I’ve seen in the game regarding those named.
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@GoodInnit Thank you for this comment.
My question is this. Was it really a promotion? People who serve on staff are subjected to a lot of abuse by players who don’t get their way. Passive aggressiveness, hatefulness, bitterness, etc. I’m not shielding the action of those named, but my perspective of staff being a promotion is slightly different. I think there’s more liberty in being able to just show up, rp, and have a good time.
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If you are being genuine, I encourage you heavily to go read about flying monkeys from a psychological standpoint; how they are groomed by abusers, and how they are used. It will prove really enlightening.
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@eddie And you’re welcome to give it!
I do have a suggestion, if you want to have an impact on the ‘Court’ of Public Opinion on BMD, that you might actually have more of an impact if you name who you play and how close you are or aren’t to Hadrix.
You don’t have to. I have a feeling you won’t. But most people reading this are going to assume that you are benefiting from association in some way with Hadrix, fyi, when you say it’s not your experience with him. That is what I am assuming, tbh, but I am willing to be proven wrong.
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@IoleRae Is that a book or an article? I’d love to read it, regardless.
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@eddie, you have provided enough specific information about specific experiences that at this point people who know you, know who you are. I’m not going to name you because you’re exhausting to argue with, your points never make any sense, and perhaps on some level, as a kindness to you.
If nothing else, the way you came in here swinging like a condescending lunatic and backed it off to “I’m an innocent bystander, I’m also a victim, don’t blame the game, I just haven’t seen the behavior that’s all <3” when the community wasn’t having it… identifies you as you.
I considered naming you in the original whistle-blow because you have bullied people and there have been complaints about you, because you exploit Cujo’s desire to avoid conflict to get away with that bullying, and because you are inextricably linked to Hadrix. He would never call out your misdeeds nor you his.
I didn’t name you because you’re a jerk player, and the scope of the post was limited to jerk admin.
Since you’re here, though: Do better.
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It’s a term, with many many articles published that talk about it. Here’s one:
In a nutshell, abusers cultivate hyper-positive relationships with individuals; they are very kind, behave gracefully, and are generally quite careful how they behave in the presence of them. They do this specifically so that when talk of their abuse comes out, they have ready-made defenders who will take it upon themselves to argue on their behalf that they have never seen this, it’s not true, etc. It’s just another way to discredit their victims.
When the monkey in question benefits directly from the behavior of the abuser, they are particularly vehement in their “I have never seen it!” defense. It’s studied enough and blatant enough that it’s…really, really obvious once you realize what’s going on.
