Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo

[Ashen-Shugar]

@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

@mangosplitz said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

The sorts of people who need to get Red Flagged are also generally the sort of people who are VERY good at manipulating, and so they will have counter receipts anyway and sometimes those are more damaging than the initial offense. So receipts are a very tricky subject.

As Jethro Gibbs would say, “trust but verify”. It doesn’t have to be public to all, but if games don’t substantiate claims, it will allow accusations to be weaponized for any type of grievance. It only takes one false accusation to be acted on to break down the trust of an entire community in all directions and destroy the environment.

Trust but verify.

This.

This is the reason why RhostMUSH has @snoop.

Yes, it can be abused.
Yes, it can be an invasion of privacy.
But system logs are the end all be all of truth.

No more ‘he said, she said.’
No more ‘it was misinterpreted.’
No more ‘s(he) is just emotional and taking it out of proporton.’
No more ‘they’re just emo and are jealous.’
No more.

Player logs can be modfied, and again goes to a he says, she says.
System logs can’t. Sure, the system admins can be douchebags and modify them themselves, but if that’s the case it’s a mud waving a red flag on ‘don’t play here’.

To be blunt, I wish more codebases had @snoop.

[GoodInnit]

This post is deleted!

[Pavel]

@Ashen-Shugar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

To be blunt, I wish more codebases had @snoop.

Penn and TinyMUX have similar capacity, at least, with the SUSPECT flag. Assuming logs are configured suitably in the latter’s case.

[Ashen-Shugar]

@Pavel said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

@Ashen-Shugar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

To be blunt, I wish more codebases had @snoop.

Penn and TinyMUX have similar capacity, at least, with the SUSPECT flag. Assuming logs are configured suitably in the latter’s case.

Correct.

However, the SUSPECT flag tends to send all suspects to a singular log, @snoop is unique in that it lets you do logs by dbref# so it allows separation which makes it easier to review.

Well, ‘unique’ in feature. To be honest LPMud and DikuMUD’s had it before we did.

[GoodInnit]

@Ashen-Shugar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

To be blunt, I wish more codebases had @snoop.

I know Penn has a command to do something to that effect. The catch is that on Age of Alliances it requires Cujo to do something about problems, and that is anathema to him. His preferred method is to avoid problems at all costs and his inaction enables the abusers. You don’t need to dole out consequences if you refuse to look at the problem.

[Ashen-Shugar]

@GoodInnit said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

@Ashen-Shugar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

To be blunt, I wish more codebases had @snoop.

I know Penn has a command to do something to that effect. The catch is that on Age of Alliances it requires Cujo to do something about problems, and that is anathema to him. His preferred method is to avoid problems at all costs and his inaction enables the abusers. You don’t need to dole out consequences if you refuse to look at the problem.

Reminds me a lot of places ran by Elsa/Zero.

Pity that.

[Jennkryst]

@GoodInnit said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

@Ashen-Shugar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

To be blunt, I wish more codebases had @snoop.

I know Penn has a command to do something to that effect. The catch is that on Age of Alliances it requires Cujo to do something about problems, and that is anathema to him. His preferred method is to avoid problems at all costs and his inaction enables the abusers. You don’t need to dole out consequences if you refuse to look at the problem.

This is why I quoted their +policy in one of my posts above. By Cujo’s own rules, he is required to investigate. Players have to agree to +policy to play. The fact that he doesn’t should be a red flag to every player on the game, because it means all rules can now be violated.

[GF]

@Ashen-Shugar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

No more ‘it was misinterpreted.’
No more ‘s(he) is just emotional and taking it out of proportion.’
No more ‘they’re just emo and are jealous.’

I get what you’re saying but this seems overly optimistic, in my experience.

[Pavel]

@GF said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

@Ashen-Shugar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

No more ‘it was misinterpreted.’
No more ‘s(he) is just emotional and taking it out of proportion.’
No more ‘they’re just emo and are jealous.’

I get what you’re saying but this seems overly optimistic, in my experience.

Yup. You could be looking right at it live, and two people would have four opinions on what’s going on.

And it’s all moot when the headstaffer won’t do anything, or worse is actively engaged in the activity itself.

[Roadspike]

@Pavel I get that you’re trying to take the most generous interpretation, and I was too – until I got to the talk about ROI. I completely understand being disappointed that a storyline didn’t work out how I wanted it to, how I planned for it to. I get that, it’s happened to me, and it’s sucked.

But, unless there was some specific agreement, no one should be talking about return on investment in interpersonal relations unless it’s some version of Prue Leith’s “It’s not worth the calories” where you’re deciding that the other person isn’t worth your time and so you’re disengaging yourself.

To expect a particular return on your investment from the other person, particularly where romantic RP/TS is involved… that’s way too close to “I bought her dinner and drinks, I deserve sex” for my comfort.

As for the other situation that @eddie mentioned – I really feel for them about that one. That sounds like an uncomfortable situation, and a boundary that they set properly and which was then crossed by another player. That’s not cool at all.

[Jennkryst]

And I going to have to come up with fucking LLC rules, so players who invest in a ship get a percentage of profits?!?

eta: just me pretending they were talking about IC money and stuff, and not lewds

[Pavel]

@Roadspike said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

To expect a particular return on your investment from the other person, particularly where romantic RP/TS is involved… that’s way too close to “I bought her dinner and drinks, I deserve sex” for my comfort.

Ordinarily, I’d agree with you. I’m opting, instead, to assume that it was a poorly chosen series of words meant to express dissatisfaction at having their time wasted - I imagine gathering the pretend IC assets required took time, given the description of travel and alteration and so forth.

So yes, the instant reaction is to be weirded out about it at best and alarmed at worst, but I’m choosing to believe it was simply a linguistic cock-up until they come and either explain more or post more.

I feel that the immediate “jump on them like they’re Satan the minute they say something we don’t like” needs to have its edge dulled somewhat. People who are dicks invariably show their dickishness, so let them hang themselves; we don’t need to do it for them.

[IoleRae]

@Pavel said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

People who are dicks invariably show their dickishness, so let them hang themselves; we don’t need to do it for them.

Yeah, they did. With their first few posts. I’m not sure why that evidence is being excluded from consideration.

When someone comes out the gate swinging, it’s neither weird nor problematic to react to them as if they came out of the gate swinging. They did that, not the people reacting to it.

Pushing people to react as if someone is discussing in good faith, when that person is demonstrably not engaging in good faith, is a problem.

[Pavel]

@IoleRae I certainly didn’t mean to imply that people reacting how they have is inexplicable or weird.

I just disagree with it.

Throw bottles, light fires, whatever you like. I’m simply explaining my own reasoning, not demanding everyone kow tows.

[Jumpscare]

At the risk of being interpreted by Pavel as somewhat condescending and/or patronising again, I’m making one more post to this thread.

Pavel, your reasoning excludes the part where Eddie wanted continued intimate RP in exchange for said IC assets, which is the only part of Eddie’s stories that’s under fire. If you don’t want to address that part of the post, fine, but leave Satan out of this.

[Pavel]

@Jumpscare said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

At the risk of being interpreted by Pavel as somewhat condescending and/or patronising again, I’m making one more post to this thread.

Pavel, your reasoning excludes the part where Eddie wanted continued intimate RP in exchange for said IC assets, which is the only part of Eddie’s stories that’s under fire. If you don’t want to address that part of the post, fine, but leave Satan out of this.

Not at all. My reasoning includes that it was mentioned, but that it was not the apparent focus. I’m assuming that

@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

I was mislead into believing that my rp would equate to something of a strong story between one character and my own

isn’t speaking just about intimate RP, my basis for this generous belief is this:

@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

Not just the intimate rp, but story we had spent hours developing and writing out.

It appears to me that the intimate RP was not the focus.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was, and thus that all my talk has been foolish, but I’m not jumping to the same conclusion you are.

[tsar]

Eh, I don’t think they were immediately jumped on for it. They said something pretty weird and @Roadspike finally went oh woah that is pretty weird after it sat for awhile. Someone being soundly corrected about how the term ROI is going to be interpreted isn’t exactly calling someone Satan.

[GF]

@tsar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

Eh, I don’t think they were immediately jumped on for it.

It took me some forbearance not to. I instantly wanted to disbelieve eddie’s story, not because I found any part of it incredible, but because if they actually went through that kind of sexual harassment twice and their takeaway was not we as a community need to protect other users from experiencing what I have experienced but rather we as a community need to fight to make sure people who speak out about sexual harassment have their testimony reflexively discounted as unreliable, then that is horrific to me. It’s the kind of response that makes me start grasping for psychiatric diagnoses to try to explain such a profound lack of empathy for victims and support for victimizers.

[BloodAngel]

@GF

[farfalla]

Unless chunks of RP are retconned, it wasn’t really “time wasted”. It’s a narrative, cooperative game. If things don’t work out the way you expected it can definitely suck, but it just changes the direction of the narrative. It doesn’t erase the time previously spent on a story. If I spend hours wooing another character, but in the end that character runs off with a princess instead, I didn’t waste that time. I still had the (presumably enjoyable or why did you do it) RP, and now I have material for more RP based on what happened if I want to keep playing out the story.

If the goal of RP is to make a story and have fun, the invested time can’t be wasted because it was 1) fun that you had for hours and 2) more story, just not what you expected.

Or the problem was entirely OOC and about OOC relationships and unrelated to any time spent on RP, in which case it’s just nice guy women are gumballs in a gumball machine thinking.

Nobody owes you anything in games or life, other than basic respect.