The Arx Secrets Thread

[kalakh]

[The Second Verse] (30 Rating) Tags: True Songs

Second verse
Much like the first
All list’ners should take heed

Some things are done
There’s more to come
The path is long indeed

This is all pretty straightforward. Yo, listen up, some of the things in the last song have happened, more stuff’s on the way.

On sorrowed seas
No balm can ease
A brother twice betrayed

Once more referring to the Thrax civil war, which had just turned hot, but specifically to Dagon Thrax, who kicked it off. There were a lot of really opportunistic NPC assholes egging Dagon on, but his major reasons for doing this were not only genuine, but completely true. The first was Victus challenging him and then taking the position of High Lord, which was not actually how things were meant to be done, but early game Thrax was extremely weird and ran off theme a lot. The second was a PC who had effectively agreed to trade one of his kids to Reveka Tyde (I forget details here), as part of some deal. He found out about it and Was Not Happy.

No puppeteer
Just men to fear
And a price that must be paid

A lot of folks really, really, really thought Dagon was either Donrai or being controlled by him, and a lot of other folks thought he’d been corrupted by the Abyss and that’s why he’d turned against Victus. Neither were true (if anything, the PC side was a lot more involved with the Abyss and Abyssal forces), this was an attempt to put that out there. Dunno how successful it was.

Though home reclaimed
And allies gained
Griffin will find no peace

Basically going into ‘status of X house’ for a few stanzas here. This one’s obvious: House Grayson had just got Bastion back, and made some very tentative agreements with House Blacktree - an Abandoned House that had been occupying it, but which fought alongside Compact forces in the final battle- to stand against the Horned God.

Dragon stand tall
He’ll come for all
Take vengeance piece by piece

Watch out House Valardin. Could have referred to either Malar or the Horned God, if you wanted to you could argue this ended up being Azazel.

Fox murders gold
Yet gains four-fold
Once more between the worlds

House Velenosa ultimately killed Malrico when he decided to make a push for greater power. This was certainly a good thing, and they managed to recover a fair amount of wealth he’d stolen over the centuries, but something that I don’t think really swung into being all that much due to real life was that this returned Velenosa to a previous state of being really in tune with ghosts and things of that nature. I don’t know a lot of details of that, I’m afraid, as it wasn’t a plot I was handling.

And blood drunk doom
Will slumber soon
'Round chain silk fingers curled

That damn House Pravus messing up the animal motif. This is referring to the threat of Kal’kul’raja (I know I’ve completely misspelled this) being ended. Kal’kul’raja was one of the Primal Spirits (Volcano, maybe? I’m not sure), who developed a taste for cannibalizing other First Children, something which made it get so dangerous that it destroyed Dawnhome (the original home of the First Children), and so powerful that it could not be killed, only put to sleep. This is the origin of spirits absolutely hating blood magic, for the record, and if you think this sounds rather familiar, yes, this is also the reason the Maw of the Blizzard was banished from Cardia. Dawnhome was originally in the Saffron Chain, and this stanza is also referring to House Pravus solidifying its grip on the Saffron Chain in general.

Once freedom hath
A sister’s wrath
Her shackles now denied

I’m not sure how clear it was to players, but the sacrifice that freed the Thornweave from Legion also immunized them to being enslaved again. Helena Thornweave was originally on board with the Horned God’s plans, but ended up completely twisted from the experience of being bound to Legion, and discovered, much to her horror and fury, that she could never go back.

She’ll let it burn
And burn in turn
There’s nowhere he can hide

Helena was especially pissed off at her brother Oberion, and did a lot of things just to spite him in specific. This ultimately led to her own destruction, but Oberion didn’t survive it.

The Blizzard’s jaws
Sun’s blood it draws
Elf prince’s deal has swayed

The Horned God made a bargain with the Maw of the Blizzard to go fuck up the Rex’alfar city in the Everwinter to keep them out of his hair (and also because the Maw was happy to do that anyway).

Keep one eye open
Vigil unbroken
Frozen death is but delayed

The Maw of the Blizzard was going to become a major antagonist at some point.

Though long forgot
It’s rested not
A dark and hungry wood

This is referring to the Witchwood again. The Witchwood was the home of Clan Mor’ral, an enchanted forest that would shift and change in order to protect the Mor’ral from outsiders, hiding their settlements and causing invaders to get horribly lost at best. Once the Mor’ral fell to Legion, the Witchwood itself was corrupted into a shardhaven that slowly expanded its borders (and sometimes simply moved altogether), devouring everything. Those emits about vanishing villages and Knights of Solace outposts were because of the Witchwood’s expansion; once the Mor’ral started acting outside of their home, the forest itself started growing.

Kingdoms stripped bare
None enter there
And the wise say no one should

Something I really didn’t have time to expand upon when I eventually ran the scene involving the Witchwood was that the reason no current maps had the location of the barony Clan Mor’ral constantly feuded with marked on them was because the Witchwood eventually grew over it.

Anyone entering the Witchwood would have the forest itself turn on them, with the exception of people with Mor’ral blood and/or souls.

On each side found
Both free and bound
Wolves giants and unsworn

Though be a cost
Much more is lost
If a pact is met with scorn

Basically just a suggestion for folks to make a lot of alliances in order to face the Horned God, and a note that potential allies existed.

An alliance birthed
Sleeps 'neath the earth
And soars across the sky

The slumbering Sylv’alfar and Dragons, respectively

The time’s upon us
Rebuild the promise
Or alone each one will die

This refers to the Promise of Oakhaven, basically bringing a bunch of allies together again in order to fight the Horned God and other threats.

The Spider’s bane
Destruction plain
Red Queen claimed Gray Queen’s crown

We’re back to Monica Thrax taking Alarice’s crown for her own. Spider’s bane refers to the weapon the Horned God took from the sack of Bastion, something meant to invoke the sun and destroy the Nox’alfar.

What whisper found below
So very long ago
Must now be swiftly hunted down

Caithness was the one who found and then figured out how to use this weapon. There were control gems or something that PCs needed to find in order to disable it so it couldn’t be used by the Horned God. I’m not sure how far this plot went before real life did more face kicking.

One stone fall
Heard not at all
In winter’s endless grasp

But none can hide
The mountain slide
Seeking crimson tears at last

Easily the vaguest one of these I did. Originally, there was going to be a massive invasion of the Northlands by shav’arvani from the Everwinter, with some very bare hints that something was happening up there.

A weapon masked
Unsheathed at last
Her fury flares and flashes

Petraea Livy was - knowingly - meant to be a weapon against Malar by her dragon, Cynara. She was effectively a nuclear bomb waiting to go off, a very powerful pyromancer with a deep well of anger that could be drawn on. When Helena Thornweave marched on Arx (and the Castle of Yesterday), Petraea chose to use this against her forces instead, with Cynara’s blessing.

With plans long laid
A game long played
Burn an empire down to ashes

Cynara’s ultimate goal was to make a power play against Malar to overthrow the Talons and install the Scales (and thus herself) as being the rulers of Cardia. She herself wanted revenge for the deaths of her siblings and her father Corusadin, though ultimately Corusadin was secretly alive and hiding under the name of Relavor. While this ended up being largely offscreened, it was successful, and Petraea’s sacrifice played a part; the sudden destabilization of Cardia due to writs being broken provided the opening she needed, even though she didn’t know that was what was going to happen.

Rogue king’s blood sleeps
Rouses fears kept deep
The hottest fires can still be drowned

This is still plot related to Cardia. Alaric and Brianna’s illegitimate son, Alarion, was someone who had the power to influence people through dreams, and this included dragons. There was a prophecy about how he was going to be the one to destroy Cardia, and the dragons took pre-emptive measures to remove him from the board. Yes, this is a prophecy about a prophecy.

Sent smiling knives
But he still survives
The dreamer has been found

The Smiling Shadows were hired to kidnap Alarion, at which point everything bounced off the rails as far as Cardia was concerned. The Talons eventually got him, but he was subsequently rescued by PCs that were being helped by…Cynara, who saw Alarion as a means with which to overthrow Malar.

Hope’s sacrifice
Can’t happen twice
In fire are heroes tempered

Copper’s death (or ‘death’, it’s complicated) happened in the process of turning time back to keep Azazel from getting free and ending the world. As Copper was the only one who could or would ever wield time magic, this is basically just saying ‘no more second chances’, the PCs will have to be the heroes who end the threat. Azazel getting loose was always intended to be the event that preceded magic returning to Arvum, so I really like how things ended up shaking out here.

Events equivalent
Make this time different
In the end all things remembered

Copper’s actions only delayed the Second Reckoning, with all the pieces still in place for it to happen if Azazel got loose. With Azazel dead, the Despite would break, and people would remember all the stuff he’d hidden away/eaten. This would not have necessarily been entirely a good thing; remembering magic also includes remembering all the horrors that come with magic, and Azazel did a lot of absolutely horrifying shit that people would then have knowledge of. There was a hint of this some years back when a group of PCs went out to kill a bunch of Azazel!crows, where the Despite broke in several places causing an emit where a lot of NPCs in Arx remembered past clearly magical events.

[Smile]

Also memories of horrible stuff mages did. The anti-magic Forgotten Sentinels would have had a lot of public support.

[Apos]

@helvetica said in The Arx Secrets Thread:

Lumen had a killer demon tricked into being trapped in the body of a little bunny rabbit. He horribly devoured her enemies.

ngl I think people got a good example of my sense of humor when I added secrets like that, the actual secret text here for posterity:

"To be fair, Lumen hadn’t really expected the rabbit to talk to her.

It seemed such a mild thing to adopt the obvious run away pet rabbit. She had just received a locket as an anonymous gift, a beautiful if quite strange locket shaped in to resemble a rabbit, with a very old picture inside of a woman that bore a striking resemblence to Lumen herself. It was somewhere between charming and creepy, as anonymous gifts go, and perhaps it was a sign when she just found a rabbit in her room the night after she received the locket.

It had to be a runaway pet, spirited away by another Whisper, of course, and while dinner wasn’t out of the question, Lumen couldn’t say what quite had stayed her hand and allowed the fluffy floppy eared varmit to stay. The white, wide-eyed hare looked like an adorable snowball, gazing at her thoughtfully, and maybe it had just a tiny edge of an imploring edge to it. But she did tell him that he was permitted to stay.

And then on the thirteenth night of the month it spoke to her.

Baron Flopsarian the Annihilator of the White Legion, Viceroy of the Mirror Plains, Grand Vizier to the Archduke of the Silent Wastes, and sometimes called Flopsy the White Rabbit, explained that he is a guardian demon that was bound to the locket some five hundred years ago by a Whisper. He’s still rather indignant at the form he’s forced to take, in accordance to the original Whisper’s directives binding him to whomever holds the Locket of the White Rabbit, but he points out that in fairness, he was expecting someone taller for his next master so she really can’t throw any stones. Flopsy says in accordance to the Convenant of the White Rabbit, he is a guardian charged with defense of the Whisper House if the one holding the locket commands him to do so when it comes under direct attack, and also he can answer one question to the best of his ability truthfully on the thirteenth night of the month. He says if she’d like to renegotiate the terms, it’s fine by him, and she just needs to break the locket and free him. The first Truly Answered Question she asked if that was a bad idea had him admit, “Oh yeah, absolutely terrible. Under no circumstances should you do that.”

For most of the time, she just has Flopsy the white rabbit following her around. Most people never, ever notice the hateful little eyes, and he never speaks to anyone else under any circumstances."

[Sillylily]

He was a belated but wonderful inheritance.
(oocly, icly Aco has opinions) still going strong and well loved.

[Buttercup]

Abbas was touched or marked or something by Despair. Right before he died he was about to take over House Ischia/Seraceni and had sacrificed a ship full of prisoners stranding them out in the ocean. He died before that occurred, but I did get to add a House to the game which was cool.

Ahriman was in a body timeshare with a demon.

Gunther was a Dwarf in a past life, I think? I actually wish I would have gone after his secrets and uncovered more about him. Such a great bit.

[watno]

@helvetica said in The Arx Secrets Thread:

Lumen had a killer demon tricked into being trapped in the body of a little bunny rabbit. He horribly devoured her enemies.

Cedric was on to Flopsy.

[kalakh]

This one was written shortly after we’d decided internally to end the game, and released shortly after it was announced. You can kinda tell with this one that I only had vague ideas - if that - of what was going to happen. The last few months I was largely just finishing up plot ends I still had left to GM, and then playing as a PC, so I was about as ignorant as anyone else as to what was going to happen.

[The Final Verse] (25 Rating)
Turn an ear, children of Choice
Listen now, this single voice
Look well and see the looming eye
It tells a tale none can deny

Eye = moon

Kinslayer bends all wills to his
Ambition set to change what is
His vengeance near has made him blind
For vengeance cold is paid in kind

Just talking about the Horned God again.

Where human kings have left their mark
In ruins deep and cold and dark
There Traitor goes, his sins laid bare
But of the Three he does not care

Once again talking about how he’s going to do his final ritual at Harrow Hall, and how he thinks he’s safe from the Kindly Voices.

The walls of time will still hold fast
A sister’s madness drowned at last
But another sister’s lost to fire
And Mania dark can still inspire

This is referring to what happened at the end of Helena Thornweave’s attacks on Arx. The walls of time refers to the Castle of Yesterday, the first sister is Helena, and the second sister is Petraea.

Joscelin, who was Inspiration, split off into both Inspiration and Mania at seeing Petraea sacrifice herself. This is why a lot of witnessing PCs got magesight and people had to do a check to avoid getting caught up in the supernatural emotion of everything. We didn’t really do a lot of player-facing stuff with demigods and the like, and I’m not the person to really explain it, but maybe Arx 2 will go into more detail on how that whole thing works.

New voices brave have paid the cost
To learn and live what once was lost
Though all are gone one still remains
The chosen sing to break his chains

The Long Song of the Venandi has been learned and the human singers have sacrificed to Wolf in order to gain the ability to sing it.

Cloak, crystal, sorrowed, shadow’s glee
And old gray fox makes two sides three
In secret foes have forged alliance
But more may aid their bold defiance

Brought up above, but a little more detail.

Cloak = Red Wardens
Crystal = The Prismatic Order
Sorrowed = Despair (or the Triarchy in general)
Shadow’s glee = Smiling Shadows
Old Gray Fox = The True Lyceum

This is referring to the Accords again, which at that point had been well established. All this and the next stanza are really referring to is a suggestion that more folks could join the Accords for the big finale. This didn’t really end up happening (time being the biggest factor) I think, though the secret orgs in general became a lot less secret.

Bring to light what lies unspoken
Of enemy bonds in trust unbroken
Forest scorned may make a vow
Dragon blood your time is now

Forest scorned = Gray Forest Fellowship
Dragon blood = Cardia

Basically two secret orgs that could possibly be brought in, but these were just tossed in as examples.

No wars of blood can be undone
No true regrets bring back the sun
But human lives are not so long
Thus fleeting deeds can still be strong

Speaking of secret orgs, this could be seen as aimed at the White Stewards in particular, but mostly it’s a general call to action for people to put aside their differences and form alliances. Bit of a theme in this whole deal.

A season’s turn is drawing near
A time of death and blood and fear
In this bold hearts remain unshaken
For every choice is one step taken

Shit’s about to hit the fan. As I said before, one of the few things I knew about what would happen when the Horned God died (because it had been established years prior), was that killing him would break all writs and release Azazel. This was not inevitable; it was an actual choice, and if writs hadn’t been broken, a different big bad would have served as the final conflict. But it was definitely the most likely outcome.

There is no path, your way untrod,
By elf or wyrm or fiend or god
Where all of them have feared to tread
Skald’s children there shall walk instead

Skald’s children = humans/humanity, but pretty self explanatory.

For the only lasting truth is change
And nothing now will stay the same
Blood red sky and dooming curse
Listen well, this final verse

Also self explanatory, but a meta nod to the end of the game, and how Arx 2 will be quite different in many ways.

That’s it! Thanks for putting up with three songs worth of often obscure nonsense.

[crawfish]

@kalakh When you included Joscelin and Petraea’s thing in there I legit got weepy.

[Arik]

Arik Halfshav

Sekrit #1 - He was a White Warden? He was part of the whole Aetheris / Rex’aflar fanclub thing only those guys were openly revealed and evil at least by game standards. So I just played it as used to be part of it, it all went to shit, I don’t talk to them no more. I think very few people ever knew that.

Sekrit #2 - Arik ded… that was way more public. He made jokes about dying. So tldr he basically got executed while being part of the group that saved Alarion from Cardia. Managed to pickup some cardian swordmaster’s blade and it immediately executed him. I don’t remember if I just rolled crazy good or the staffer running the story was like lawl I like your moxie kid. Something about how he died basically shunted him out of the wheel / queen of death. So if he died prior to fixing his soul he would just end no reincarnation no shining lands no nothing just void.

My question is… was Alarion like essentially a future evil mindcontrolling big bad? Because from the story stuff we got prior to me stopping playing there were some scenes I was thinking… Arik suggests executing the kid before he ends up being some super evil reincarnated as a kid with dream mind control powers.

[Roz]

@Arik said in The Arx Secrets Thread:

Arik Halfshav

Sekrit #1 - He was a White Warden?

White Steward

My question is… was Alarion like essentially a future evil mindcontrolling big bad? Because from the story stuff we got prior to me stopping playing there were some scenes I was thinking… Arik suggests executing the kid before he ends up being some super evil reincarnated as a kid with dream mind control powers.

Apostate answered some questions about Alarion in the recent AMA you can read the event log for and: no. He was just a kid with dreamwalking powers, which is something that some people just have, nothing evil. (I think some PCs might have had it as a secret?) That and being part of the prophecy about Cardia that could be fulfilled any number of ways, or not fulfilled at all.

[Rhamnious]

@Arik said in The Arx Secrets Thread:

How he died basically shunted him out of the wheel / queen of death. So if he died prior to fixing his soul he would just end no reincarnation no shining lands no nothing just void.

You’re welcome for making you into a bard!

[insomniac]

So, Thesarin had two Secrets, one as a direct result of the other.

The one I started knowing about was that he had some ability to detect Abyssal taint, and seeing it on the elders of his tribe (even not knowing what it was) is what drove him to break away as much as he could and leave, which of course is what brought him to the Compact in the first place.

Later I learned that it was because he’d been the Sword of House Redire in a previous life, and he’d inherited the ability to detect the influence of Legion, which is generally cool!

[Rowan]

One of my first characters was Rowynna Blackshore. Loved playing her but I stopped before I got to the bottom of her secret, and if anyone can throw light on it, I’d love to know now.

Rowynna was actually Lady Elisabe Blackshore, sister to Oswald, Cornelius and Aedric. Elisabe went missing in the Darkwater twenty six years previously. Rowynna has no memory of what happened to her or where she spent those twenty six years, she only remembers waking up on a raft, the only survivor from the missing ship. I managed to get a vision on her that a figure in black platemail and chains rose up out of the waters and dragged the ship and crew under but I can’t now remember if the figure spoke to or communicated with her. I chased every clue I could but got no further than wondering if he was connected to the Queen of Stasis? Zircon? Had she been in stasis for 26 years? Eirene had a theory that the Darkwater transported people/things directly to the abyss. SO! I’d love to know who the figure was and where she was for the missing twenty six years.

She woke up and was still 19, when she made her way back to Arx, Oswald was dead, Cornelius 50ish and Aedric 40 something. She pretended to be a distant relative but eventually told Cornelius and in a very emotional scene, Aedric as well.

Big regret that I rostered her.

[hellfrog]

@Rowan the darkwater was real fucky in terms of time and space, it was abyssal, but she wasn’t necessarily IN the abyss. There were a few characters who had time slippage as a result of the darkwater. No idea who the figure was. Looks like she was an OC, though, so would have been just inactive/idle.

[Jumpscare]

I think I was the third player of Lady Lilia Grimhall.

As best I can recall, she and her uncle had discovered something magical that would most likely have them killed if she told the wrong people. I could be misremembering, because it never came up during my time playing her.

Also, this little pupper, named Good Ansel:

Good Ansel was a demon that was bound to Lilia and spent his days telling Lilia things only she could hear.

Playing Lilia and Ansel was basically like being Bea and Luci from Disenchantment.

[Selira]

Bliss had four secrets, but they were built around two things that were incredibly public knowledge by the end:

1. Her duel with Everard Telmar, the fact that she won the Telmar House Sword from him, and the fact that it was stolen from her by him dishonorably after, leaving her shoulder maimed.

2. Her fame with the Nox’alfar after finishing a folly.

Those were definitely enough fuel to drive a character forward, and while I was actively playing the game, I did a lot of scheming, putting together a quiet alliance of nobles to pressure and press on Telmar, working with the Nox now and then, and just doing fun things. There was more I could have done, ways I should have been less averse, but playing a character who on the one hand was ready to burn it all down for the drama who on the other hand took Whisper House and made some major moves that set the scene for future Radiants is enough for me. She had her moment in the spotlight, and then when real life flared up, I got out of it and did my best to let others shine.

[dvoraen]

After asking about Bhandn’s secret, I am so glad I did not give in to @Narson trying to get me to swear Vows.

Vows are trouble, everyone. You heard it from this guy, the previous-life vowbreaker. (No relation to that piece of the Will of Baalphrigor.)

[Apos]

@Jumpscare said in The Arx Secrets Thread:

I think I was the third player of Lady Lilia Grimhall.

Good Ansel was a demon that was bound to Lilia and spent his days telling Lilia things only she could hear.

Playing Lilia and Ansel was basically like being Bea and Luci from Disenchantment.

Kinda delighted someone got that vibe from the secret. I don’t think most of the other Lilia’s cared for it tbh, which I found a bummer since of the couple dozen Secret Buddy secrets I wrote, this was one I particularly liked. Secret text:

"Lilia was alone in her room in the Granite Suite at the Grimhall Longhouse, waking up in the middle of the night from the sound of the door opening (which was unusual, as it was locked), and then the sound of Good Ansel the Pocket-Sized Dog scampering down the hall. In the middle of the night, with a surprising absence of guards, she remembers following down after the dog and the little thing had bolted all the way towards the Thrax estate, stopping at a park bench on the way and hopping up on it, barely visible in the overcast, moonless night sky. And then, as she approached, the little dog began to glow.

Not just glow, but burst into light, with a rainbow prism of colors streaming out and sparkles and glitter (glitter?), with little stars bursting around, as the dog floated in the air. Good Ansel spoke in a high pitched, child like voice suddenly yelling, “GREETINGS PRINCESS, YOU ARE VERY LUCKY AND HAVE BEEN CHOSEN TO BECOME A MAGICAL GIRL, BLESSED BY THE GODS TO…” And then suddenly the light all stopped and the dog dropped to the bench, staring at her in shock. “Lilia? Shit! I was expecting one of the children of Thrax royal family to wander along. Damn it! UGH! Fuck, you saw all of that?” The tiny dog groaned and flopped over on its side in disgust, letting out a big sigh, “Well, cat’s out of the bag now I guess, this is awful. Wait, you’re with Aetheris right? I remember that! You’ve been getting notes from the Rex! This could still work, okay. We can do this!” The little dog paced back and forth, its brow furrowing in thought before it stopped and seemed to come to a decision.

“All right, so I don’t actually go by ‘Good Ansel’. What a stupid name. Arn wasn’t very creative. I’m Norm’argal’valthryx. Technically, I’m not a dog, but I’m an imp. A major imp! I run imp operations for Aetheris in Arx. You know, the whole convincing people talking animals are the best thing ever and becoming their familiars to guide them? That kind of shit.” The little dog shrugged its tiny shoulders, “Truth is, things are not great. Sure, the imps are still doing operations, like we have a cat thing going on throughout the city to gather primum, but Azazel just fled the city, and I think things are going to get bad. -Real- bad, and I have zero interest in being screwed over as everything comes crashing down.” The tiny dog looked up at her, “How about you and I make a deal? I keep the Aetheris imp actions on the down low, and we start making plans to not get killed when the Despite finally collapses? Which it absolutely will. The imps are all scared about it, but they are just going through the motions now. Only a matter of time before someone starts trying to hunt down talking animals and all.” The little dog looked at her speculatively, “You need a familiar? Yeah. You need a familiar. You can trust to old Norm with that. I’ll keep up this ruse, and as things get messy, we’ll figure out how to get through this together. And don’t worry, there’s no ‘I’ in ‘team’.”

There is, however, an ‘I’ in ‘imp’."

[Jumpscare]

@Apos said in The Arx Secrets Thread:

@Jumpscare said in The Arx Secrets Thread:

Playing Lilia and Ansel was basically like being Bea and Luci from Disenchantment.

Kinda delighted someone got that vibe from the secret. I don’t think most of the other Lilia’s cared for it tbh, which I found a bummer since of the couple dozen Secret Buddy secrets I wrote, this was one I particularly liked.

I particularly loved it! It was like I had lucked into the perfect roster for me, haha.

[peasoup]

Leta was the Horned God’s great-granddaughter? Something like that? I might have the exact generation wrong, I stopped poking at it because everyone told her not to and she suffered from a surfeit of respect for authority figures.