The Rings of Power - Discussion
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@Kestrel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
A friend of mine is unhappy that Galadriel isn’t exactly as Tolkien wrote her in the books.
I’m a purist. I’d like major characters to be, if not exactly as they are written in the books, then in ways that don’t conflict the core of those characters completely. So for example if Elrond was portrayed as racist towards non-Elves that’d be an issue for me, since in the books he’s quite welcoming in Rivendell and runs it as a sanctuary.
So I get your friend, and to some extent I agree with them. However some of the complaints (and this isn’t limited to RoP, I’d seen plenty of it in Game of Thrones in the past, etc) are just made by people who really intend to be mad. Again for example there are protesting how only a few Numenorian ships had so many supplies, horses, crossed the Sea so quickly to intervene, etc.
My god, fuck off. Really, that’s a line in the sand now? Warfare logistics? I don’t exactly recall Tolkien writing a word about the supply trains following Aragorn’s army on the way to Mordor either, and the guy dedicated multiple paragraphs to describe how nice-looking trees looked.
Edit: This is what I’m referring to:
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@Arkandel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
@Kestrel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
A friend of mine is unhappy that Galadriel isn’t exactly as Tolkien wrote her in the books.
I’m a purist. I’d like major characters to be, if not exactly as they are written in the books, then in ways that don’t conflict the core of those characters completely. So for example if Elrond was portrayed as racist towards non-Elves that’d be an issue for me, since in the books he’s quite welcoming in Rivendell and runs it as a sanctuary.
So I get your friend, and to some extent I agree with them. However some of the complaints (and this isn’t limited to RoP, I’d seen plenty of it in Game of Thrones in the past, etc) are just made by people who really intend to be mad. Again for example there are protesting how only a few Numenorian ships had so many supplies, horses, crossed the Sea so quickly to intervene, etc.
My god, fuck off. Really, that’s a line in the sand now? Warfare logistics? I don’t exactly recall Tolkien writing a word about the supply trains following Aragorn’s army on the way to Mordor either, and the guy dedicated multiple paragraphs to describe how nice-looking trees looked.
Edit: This is what I’m referring to:
Well, shit. If that’s where all the mithril is going, no wonder the elves are so hard up for it.
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@Aria The
unobtainiummithril reserves are running low. Build moreRingssilos! -
Hmm. Well, that finale felt weirdly rushed, I gotta say. Kind of another victim of these condensed seasons that have become the standard in streaming now and inexperienced showrunners, imho. The pacing of the plot is so sedate for the first six episodes and then everything gets jam-packed into the last two in a way that just feels lopsided.
I was also honestly disappointed this is how and when they decided to portray the creation of the rings – def had “last-minute rewrite” energy to me. What the big twist was going to be was pretty telegraphed in the episode if you already knew the backstory behind the rings, but that element of the plot was something I wanted a much slower burn on in particular, just personally, not some sudden huge reveal at the very end. It all feels a bit out of left field for the character.
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I’m still in the middle of binging it all, but I’m incredibly annoyed that the Elves speak English, and not Quenya, when there are no other races around. See also: Dwarves speaking English, and not Khuzdul.
Immersion RUINED.
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@Wizz said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
Hmm. Well, that finale felt weirdly rushed, I gotta say.
I think it’s the pace, frankly. There was a lot of filler scenes which, even though they played their part in setting the narrative especially among the Harfoots, could have easily been snipped to provide more room for what was one of Middle Earth’s most meaningful deceptions focused around Celebrimbor.
Hell, Celebrimbor himself wasn’t even on-screen that much. For a series called Rings of Power you’d think his role especially around the time of their making would be much larger. And the whole plot surrounding that - the deception, the crafting itself - felt like it took like ten minutes tops, and wasn’t even that masterful.
You-know-who is supposed to be an absolutely masterclass-level manipulator. We didn’t see that. I wish we had seen that. Hell I could even argue he was exposed much too early, far too easily.
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@Arkandel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
You-know-who is supposed to be an absolutely masterclass-level manipulator. We didn’t see that. I wish we had seen that. Hell I could even argue he was exposed much too early, far too easily.
I did like the offer made to a certain someone, because at least to me, it makes one of my favorite scenes from the LoTR film trilogy just a wee bit better.
(Don’t click the link if you don’t want spoilers about the episode, even if the movie is, like, twenty years old now.)
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@Arkandel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
You-know-who is supposed to be an absolutely masterclass-level manipulator. We didn’t see that. I wish we had seen that. Hell I could even argue he was exposed much too early, far too easily.
I mean, you could make the case that if you go back and view earlier episodes through this new lens that he was using reverse psychology to manipulate people and events to put him into the right place at the right time, but the problem is that it just doesn’t seem intentional to me in those episodes, which is why I said it has that last minute rewrite feel.
The bigger problem to me is, how tf is the One Ring supposed to have the power it does if everyone involved have already kicked him out and are aware of his designs? In the original material, he was involved in the creation of all of the rings except the Three while also creating the One in secret. Doesn’t revealing him early…undermine that entirely? Why would they even go through with any of it, knowing who he is and that he clearly wanted them made? It’s just frustrating and bizarre to me.
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@Wizz Just to not sound negative though, even if the reveal (both reveals, really, including the Stranger) was predictable I do like the complexities they introduced. This is not an all-out villain at this point, twirling his mustache as he gloats about wanting to kill everyone who stands in his way.
There was even a great line in there about the difference between ruling and saving Middle-Earth. He comes off as asking for help - even in a really dysfunctional, twisted way. He wants to be bound to the light, and wants to be redeemed. And in the background there are these Orcs who got tortured and just want to live free, Southlands Men who need hope and have crowned him king, etc.
To be honest when the series came out I was expecting zero nuisance from its villains. Just plain good versus evil. There’s promise in the show, despite its flaws.
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I didn’t really like it that much.
I don’t think it was a catastrophe (like some of the anti-hype claimed) so much as a disappointment. Visually it was great. Some of the acting pretty good, some not so good, but I suspect the latter had as much to do with lackluster direction/writing as the actors themselves. The plot, character work, writing and pacing was definitively subpar, though.
I actually stopped watching after the third episode, but got roped back into watching the rest as well.
@Arkandel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
My god, fuck off. Really, that’s a line in the sand now? Warfare logistics?
I mean… I really like warfare logistics to make sense.
Edit: Corrected to attribute quote to the right person.
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@lordbelh said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
@Aria said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
My god, fuck off. Really, that’s a line in the sand now? Warfare logistics?
I mean… I really like warfare logistics to make sense.
That was an Arkandel quote, not a me quote.
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@Kestrel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
[…] the distinct lack of lesbians in Middle-Earth with a bit of gayladriel.
Wasn’t someone just shouting about how Elves are not allowed to be horny in a different thread?
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Finale Thoughts:
- Lenny Henry made me cry. I knew he would be great in this role. I was not disappointed by him.
- Harfoots remain my favourite storyline, Nori & Stranger remain my OTPlatonic. On this @Arkandel & I are diametrically opposed. I don’t care about tall people, Hobbits: First Class spinoff when?
- Set design so pretty, oooh
- Elrond was my least favourite casting choice before watching the series, is one of my favourites now. He totally lacks Hugo Weaving’s intrinsic air of authority and yeah his face is not classically handsome, but wow in this context it somehow just works. Hats off to Aramayo. A different Elrond from the one I once had in my head, but one I can come to embrace.
- I agree the finale was rushed. My man Celebrimbor was robbed. He deserved his own arc and got barely a skipped pebble.
- I actually was surprised by the villain reveal, which makes me want to rewatch the whole thing now. I knew who Stranger was, but I was actually behind this fan theory (mouseover to read the URL for the deets, don’t want to hint at the spoiler otherwise). I expected we’d see a tale of gradual corruption rather than an immediate curtain-pull.
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@Kestrel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
- I actually was surprised by the villain reveal, which makes me want to rewatch the whole thing now. I knew who Stranger was, but I was actually behind this fan theory (mouseover to read the URL for the deets, don’t want to hint at the spoiler otherwise). I expected we’d see a tale of gradual corruption rather than an immediate curtain-pull.
I was hoping Halbrand was who you thought he’d be, as it’d give us a nice parallel - with a much darker twist - to Aragorn’s own arc.
I think season 1 should have worked more on expanding the potential list of eligible Ring recipients.
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I don’t generally use Twitter, but I have a private account for the sole purpose of occasionally looking up the latest hullabaloo.
Anyway, I decided to search for “Rings of Power” for a sense of public consensus on the finale, and all I found was endless Haladriel shipping memes.
Damnit, internet. Go to your room.
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@Kestrel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
I don’t generally use Twitter, but I have a private account for the sole purpose of occasionally looking up the latest hullabaloo.
Anyway, I decided to search for “Rings of Power” for a sense of public consensus on the finale, and all I found was endless Haladriel shipping memes.
Damnit, internet. Go to your room.
There’s a sign hanging over the door that reads “Horny Jail”.
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@Kestrel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
- Harfoots remain my favourite storyline, Nori & Stranger remain my OTPlatonic. On this @Arkandel & I are diametrically opposed. I don’t care about tall people, Hobbits: First Class spinoff when?
Literally my favorite part of every episode
Also, similarly surprised by the villain reveal. I assumed the same as the fan theory.
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A week later I’m still annoyed and mystified by all the Haladriel shipping. Like as pointed out here:
@NotSanni said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
@Kestrel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
Sidebar, I really love all the bestfriendships on this show, and this is something I like about House of the Dragon too. Romantic couples are boring. Laenor + Rhaenyra, Nori + Stranger, Durin + Elrond are all my OTP. (One True Platonic.)
I think that the world could use more stories that incorporate non-romantic relationships. Tolkien was really, REALLY good at incorporating them into his own works, and I’m glad that Rings of Power is showing that at least a little.
I really wish it felt possible these days to explore platonic (or otherwise complex) relationships in fiction, even between people of the opposite sex, without it always having to turn into … vague general hand wave.
I cynically wonder if Amazon was trying to tease/bait this kind of reaction on purpose, or if it is just our culture to blame, but either way ew I hate it. Down with this ship.
Anyway, on a lighter and hypocritical note:
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I’d need to brush up on it but Tolkien’s Elves aren’t really driven by their relationships in the same way as other races. They mate for life, which probably reflects Tolkien’s background as a devout Catholic, as well as his more prudish society.
So the idea of breaking up, divorcing or even remarrying really isn’t that thematic in that sense. A quick google reveals only one Elf to have ever been with two partners - Finwë’s, who remarried after his first wife Míriel died, and that had complications relating to his first wife’s ‘reincarnation’. It’s pretty esoteric! Although it does bear saying when these folks fall, they fall all the damn way; Luthien and Beren’s bond basically defined the entire First Age.
Now I don’t think RoP will take that approach especially since they’ve already introduced at least one more Elf/Man couple and they do probably can use some more romance in the show than we’ve seen so far, but still. There is probably a range of reasonable compromises between “no Elf can ever take a lover outside of wedlock” and "Galadriel boinks Sauron".
