The Rings of Power - Discussion
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I propose keeping this thread spoiler-free for 7 days too.
The first two episodes were amazing. I loved the dwarves! And the Elves! And the uh other creatures!
I’m a Tolkien purist, but I’ve seen nothing so far that I found offensive. The script writers will probably need to dance a lot later on around the fact the show doesn’t have the rights to the Silmarillion if they want to go into depth about the dynamics between races (or the Enemy, of past or present Age) but no complaints so far.
Also the production values - holy shit. It’s still absolutely crazy how they can pull this off on a TV series. It was definitely movie quality.
My one concern would be if they’re introducing too many characters for us to care about since, unlike Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon politics aren’t really what this is about (well, probably) in order could focus on the intrigue and use an expansive cast, but we’ll see.
Also someone had better name-drop Luthien and Beren at some point, dammit.
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@Arkandel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
Also the production values
I was reading that they plan for something like 5 seasons… with a total bill of one billion.
Visual effects are fantastic. And agreed, two episodes in and it’s pretty darn good. Excited to see where it goes.
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@Arkandel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
My one concern would be if they’re introducing too many characters for us to care about since, unlike Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon politics aren’t really what this is about (well, probably)
I’m not sure what you mean by this because there was a lot of political tension in the books! Based on what we’ve already seen, I imagine they’re probably going to lean into the historical resentments humans and dwarves have for the elves pretty hard. I’d also be interested to see some of the conflicts between the different elven tribes, but seeing as that was almost entirely Silmarillion stuff I dunno how much they’ll be able to reference or hint at.
I have to admit I was so uninterested in watching this show initially, but after the second episode I am hooked for the production values alone, goddammit. Also the dwarves because they’re THE ACTUAL BEST
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@Wizz said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
Also the dwarves because they’re THE ACTUAL BEST
They fucking were and I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say it was the first time I’ve ever watched anything with Dwarves in it that does the race justice. Even Gilmi in the LotR movies (which I love, mind you) was used as a cranky comedy plot device too often for my tastes. But these specific ones, and the culture we’re exposed to, rock.
… I didn’t even mean for the pun to happen. It just did.
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I actually really enjoyed how they were portrayed in the first Hobbit film, which seems like the same vein they’re mining here!
(We’re just going to ignore the sequels tho. FOREVER.)
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I was really concerned (okay, I still am) about how generic fantasy this series was going to be, and whether it’d shit all over Tolkien’s work to make a
buck using the franchise’s name as a vehicle.All I can say is so far it’s given me nothing to worry about. Obviously this is fan fiction. They aren’t following any one specific arc from the book and the characters (at least in this Age) are barely described even in the Silmarillion. What do we really know about Gil-Galad from the books? That he kicked ass with his spear, that he had a cool shield, some of his major decisions leading up to the Last Alliance and - mainly - how he died. Almost anything he says and does in Rings of Power will be invented, including giving him an actual personality.
But unless they make him into a total asshole… who cares? Folks online are raging and nitpicking over stuff like short-haired Elves. Holy shit that’s not a hill to die on. Yes, the ones Tolkien described wore it long; what the fuck does it matter if some, among thousands, like it short? Maybe they get sweaty, dammit.
As for the race card, IMHO especially in this specific show it’s almost pure racism. Yes, I am 100% sure the very, very Anglo-Saxon and product of his age author envisioned most characters in his head to be white. But when Ilúvatar or Aulë the Smith created People they might have thrown in some melanin variations, why not?
I didn’t find this to be distracting at all - whereas in the Wheel of Time it came off as really weird sometimes that small isolated villages looked like Manhattan, race-wise.
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@Arkandel said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
As for the race card, IMHO especially in this specific show it’s almost pure racism. Yes, I am 100% sure the very, very Anglo-Saxon and product of his age author envisioned most characters in his head to be white. But when Ilúvatar or Aulë the Smith created People they might have thrown in some melanin variations, why not?
I didn’t find this to be distracting at all - whereas in the Wheel of Time it came off as really weird sometimes that small isolated villages looked like Manhattan, race-wise.To this point, I was actually gleeful imagining all the outrage the casting was causing. Like, more talented people are getting work they deserve and it’s kinda-sorta becoming the golden age of television, babyyyyy. Fuck the whiny toxic dipshits who can’t handle their precious imaginary racist “utopia” getting thrown in the trash where it belongs.
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@Wizz I would have been outraged if they made Galadriel anything but a blonde since so much was written specifically about her hair. Tolkien had a thing!
Also, my understanding is they will compress the events of the Second Age within a few decades (years?) to avoid basically all of the mortals in the cast dying off after the first couple of episodes. I guess yeah, that deviates from the books but I’d chalk it up as a necessary part of adopting the work to a different storytelling medium.
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People who are mad about dark-skinned Harfoots clearly didn’t actually read the books they claim to be sticklers for. Ironic outrage is ironic.
So far, I adore the way Hobbits and Dwarves have been portrayed, and holy shit Khazad-dûm is goddamn majestic and beautiful.
I dislike the adaptation of the Elves, and wish they were a little more ethereal and otherworldly. They encapsulate the main problem I have with the show altogether, which is the HBOificiation of Tolkien’s work; adapting an adult fairytale into a modern edgy fantasy for modern edgy teens. LotR is vastly superior to GoT in my eyes, and has no need to imitate the latter’s success. The parts of the show I’ve liked best are the ones that really lean into the magic of Middle-Earth instead of hamming up the grit. So like, less of Galadriel chopping up trolls with a giant sword, more of the weird guy whispering to fireflies please.
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@Kestrel This is my all-time favorite quote about the way Tolkien envisioned his Elves, as spoken by Treebeard:
“Elves began it, of course, waking trees up and teaching them to speak and learn their tree-talk. They always wished to talk to everything, the old Elves did. But then the Great Darkness came, and they passed away over the Sea, or fled into far valleys and hid themselves, and made songs about days that would never come again. Never again.”
Mind you, I am enjoying the show, but I wish they wouldn’t make Elves… optimistic. They have lost, and can see their own end, even in the Second Age; they are nostalgic about what came before, not optimistic about what’s yet to come.
This is perfectly captured in the nature of the Three, which are neither weapons nor tools, only ways to preserve and maintain. As a race they aren’t even trying to expand; just to keep what they have, and not decline further. They love Middle Earth but it’s their nature to retreat, reflect and ultimately diminish.
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@Arkandel “This authority who’s dead and therefore can’t speak for himself totally agrees with my opinions, which I shall now prove he would do by citing nothing he ever said which would support my assertion.”
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@GF said in The Rings of Power - Discussion:
@Arkandel “This authority who’s dead and therefore can’t speak for himself totally agrees with my opinions, which I shall now prove he would do by citing nothing he ever said which would support my assertion.”
I tend to assume anyone who does this to complain about “wokeness” is basically just the kid in Jojo Rabbit – running around with his imaginary friend in his head, telling us all what he’d want, with all perception of said imaginary friend completely divorced from reality, and to be taken about as seriously as, yes, Taika Watiti playing Hitler.
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@GF Well, J.R.R. Tolkien’s opinions on race were… pretty clear, I think. We don’t need to resort to necromancy or anything.
“I have the hatred of apartheid in my bones; and most of all I detest the segregation or separation of Language and Literature. I do not care which of them you think White." - JRR Tolkien, in his own words, denouncing any conscription of his stories to a specific race. -
@Arkandel In case my post came off as addressing you rather than Elon, I’d just like to clarify that now.
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ADMIN EDIT by Tez:
Removed racist content.
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@Sam-Hyde Hi! We don’t do racism here. So cut it out.
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@Pavel Oh yeah? Well, Elves suck. Fucking know-it-alls.
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On the other hand the depiction of Dwarves in this series is fucking amazing and possibly the best part of it for me. I didn’t see that coming! Disa and Durin are awesome.
Online posts trying to guess who Sauron is are so funny, too.
<literally any new character appears>
<DiCaprio meme pointing at screen> -
Durin + Elrond are amazing!
