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Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo
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@Ashen-Shugar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
No more ‘it was misinterpreted.’
No more ‘s(he) is just emotional and taking it out of proportion.’
No more ‘they’re just emo and are jealous.’I get what you’re saying but this seems overly optimistic, in my experience.
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@GF said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@Ashen-Shugar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
No more ‘it was misinterpreted.’
No more ‘s(he) is just emotional and taking it out of proportion.’
No more ‘they’re just emo and are jealous.’I get what you’re saying but this seems overly optimistic, in my experience.
Yup. You could be looking right at it live, and two people would have four opinions on what’s going on.
And it’s all moot when the headstaffer won’t do anything, or worse is actively engaged in the activity itself.
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@Pavel I get that you’re trying to take the most generous interpretation, and I was too – until I got to the talk about ROI. I completely understand being disappointed that a storyline didn’t work out how I wanted it to, how I planned for it to. I get that, it’s happened to me, and it’s sucked.
But, unless there was some specific agreement, no one should be talking about return on investment in interpersonal relations unless it’s some version of Prue Leith’s “It’s not worth the calories” where you’re deciding that the other person isn’t worth your time and so you’re disengaging yourself.
To expect a particular return on your investment from the other person, particularly where romantic RP/TS is involved… that’s way too close to “I bought her dinner and drinks, I deserve sex” for my comfort.
As for the other situation that @eddie mentioned – I really feel for them about that one. That sounds like an uncomfortable situation, and a boundary that they set properly and which was then crossed by another player. That’s not cool at all.
Formerly known as Seraphim73 (he/him)
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And I going to have to come up with fucking LLC rules, so players who invest in a ship get a percentage of profits?!?
eta: just me pretending they were talking about IC money and stuff, and not lewds
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@Roadspike said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
To expect a particular return on your investment from the other person, particularly where romantic RP/TS is involved… that’s way too close to “I bought her dinner and drinks, I deserve sex” for my comfort.
Ordinarily, I’d agree with you. I’m opting, instead, to assume that it was a poorly chosen series of words meant to express dissatisfaction at having their time wasted - I imagine gathering the pretend IC assets required took time, given the description of travel and alteration and so forth.
So yes, the instant reaction is to be weirded out about it at best and alarmed at worst, but I’m choosing to believe it was simply a linguistic cock-up until they come and either explain more or post more.
I feel that the immediate “jump on them like they’re Satan the minute they say something we don’t like” needs to have its edge dulled somewhat. People who are dicks invariably show their dickishness, so let them hang themselves; we don’t need to do it for them.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
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@Pavel said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
People who are dicks invariably show their dickishness, so let them hang themselves; we don’t need to do it for them.
Yeah, they did. With their first few posts. I’m not sure why that evidence is being excluded from consideration.
When someone comes out the gate swinging, it’s neither weird nor problematic to react to them as if they came out of the gate swinging. They did that, not the people reacting to it.
Pushing people to react as if someone is discussing in good faith, when that person is demonstrably not engaging in good faith, is a problem.
the entity previously known as Sunny
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@IoleRae I certainly didn’t mean to imply that people reacting how they have is inexplicable or weird.
I just disagree with it.
Throw bottles, light fires, whatever you like. I’m simply explaining my own reasoning, not demanding everyone kow tows.
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At the risk of being interpreted by Pavel as somewhat condescending and/or patronising again, I’m making one more post to this thread.
Pavel, your reasoning excludes the part where Eddie wanted continued intimate RP in exchange for said IC assets, which is the only part of Eddie’s stories that’s under fire. If you don’t want to address that part of the post, fine, but leave Satan out of this.
Game-runner of Silent Heaven, a small-town horror MU.
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@Jumpscare said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
At the risk of being interpreted by Pavel as somewhat condescending and/or patronising again, I’m making one more post to this thread.
Pavel, your reasoning excludes the part where Eddie wanted continued intimate RP in exchange for said IC assets, which is the only part of Eddie’s stories that’s under fire. If you don’t want to address that part of the post, fine, but leave Satan out of this.
Not at all. My reasoning includes that it was mentioned, but that it was not the apparent focus. I’m assuming that
@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
I was mislead into believing that my rp would equate to something of a strong story between one character and my own
isn’t speaking just about intimate RP, my basis for this generous belief is this:
@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
Not just the intimate rp, but story we had spent hours developing and writing out.
It appears to me that the intimate RP was not the focus.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was, and thus that all my talk has been foolish, but I’m not jumping to the same conclusion you are.
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Eh, I don’t think they were immediately jumped on for it. They said something pretty weird and @Roadspike finally went oh woah that is pretty weird after it sat for awhile. Someone being soundly corrected about how the term ROI is going to be interpreted isn’t exactly calling someone Satan.
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@tsar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
Eh, I don’t think they were immediately jumped on for it.
It took me some forbearance not to. I instantly wanted to disbelieve eddie’s story, not because I found any part of it incredible, but because if they actually went through that kind of sexual harassment twice and their takeaway was not we as a community need to protect other users from experiencing what I have experienced but rather we as a community need to fight to make sure people who speak out about sexual harassment have their testimony reflexively discounted as unreliable, then that is horrific to me. It’s the kind of response that makes me start grasping for psychiatric diagnoses to try to explain such a profound lack of empathy for victims and support for victimizers.
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Unless chunks of RP are retconned, it wasn’t really “time wasted”. It’s a narrative, cooperative game. If things don’t work out the way you expected it can definitely suck, but it just changes the direction of the narrative. It doesn’t erase the time previously spent on a story. If I spend hours wooing another character, but in the end that character runs off with a princess instead, I didn’t waste that time. I still had the (presumably enjoyable or why did you do it) RP, and now I have material for more RP based on what happened if I want to keep playing out the story.
If the goal of RP is to make a story and have fun, the invested time can’t be wasted because it was 1) fun that you had for hours and 2) more story, just not what you expected.
Or the problem was entirely OOC and about OOC relationships and unrelated to any time spent on RP, in which case it’s just nice guy women are gumballs in a gumball machine thinking.
Nobody owes you anything in games or life, other than basic respect.
as previously stated, good day.
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I get your point that it isn’t actually time wasted, but it sure has every hallmark of wasted time as well as the emotions.
I heavily resent the time I wasted building up relationships on Gray Harbor with someone who turned out to be at best a sex pest and worst a downright predator. All of the fun I had before they turned on me is soured now. I can’t get that time I now know was ill spent back. Not only that but it has had long lasting effects on my ability to enjoy rp and the building of a story. I can’t just dive into a good narrative any more without first exploring if this is worth my time… and that just isn’t fun at all, so in practical terms I don’t engage to that level any more.
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Holy fuck. What a goddamn tire fire.
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@junipersky I’m very sorry that happened to you.
I do think having your RP affected by a predator is different from not having a potential IC romantic relationship work out, though. I think my point is that if it’s about the IC then it’s not wasted – it becomes “wasted” when it becomes about the OOC. Abuse is a completely valid reason, but “losing” an IC partner is not a valid reason to be OOC big mad.
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At the end of the day, it comes down to staff. Do you trust staff to handle this sort of thing fair and reasonably? Then trust that they’re seeing things you aren’t; additional testimony, logs, personal experience, interaction with the accused, etc etc. This is not me saying that staff trying their best don’t still make the wrong call at times, or that their rulings should be taken as the end all be all in all circumstances, but when you boil everything else away, that’s what it’s about.
If you can’t or don’t or won’t trust staff with this kind of thing, then I don’t think it’s likely to help if staff air all the dirty laundry out for everyone to pick over. Everyone is not staff. These are not things decided by popular vote (at least, in every game I’ve ever heard of, they’re not). And it also discourages people who would report abuse but are afraid or embarrassed to have it made public. It’s very hard for a lot of players to reveal it even in private to staff they do trust, it’s often a struggle to convince folks (or convince yourself) to go to staff with issues like this. Every. Single. Time. that we have banned people from Arx during my tenure as staff, someone, and usually more than one, will immediately pipe up to say it was happening to them too, or they were getting strange vibes that they didn’t quite think was worth reporting. It is extremely rare for these folks to target only one person. Even when we pre-emptively banned someone, a bunch of folks talked about how they were already seeing red flags from him.
In this case, from my understanding, the person being accused is staff, and the person who could do something about it refuses to do so. This post is, therefore, a warning to the community, because that’s about the only thing that can be done to try to keep other folks from being victimized.
Do people make posts like this out of malice? Absolutely, I’ve seen it happen. But that’s rare, and the truth tends to out, because the sorts of folks who make up that kind of shit are also usually not targeting just one person.
This idea that someone needs a full court jury of their peers to determine whether they are, in fact, a sexpest/manipulative asshole/general piece of shit is silly. That can’t and will never happen. We aren’t calling witnesses to the stand or doing internet fingerprinting or whatever, there aren’t cops waiting to haul the guilty away or a singular judge with the power and authority to send you to internet jail. All that does is serve to protect abusers with layers of obstacles that victims have to hop through and the insistence that private things be dragged into the public for hobby randos to pick over. This is why demanding receipts in this fashion just doesn’t work. What counts as receipts? What counts as receipts that can’t just be waved off as not good enough?
It sounds like staff can’t be trusted on this game, and at least one is actively causing harm. That’s the point I’d say you’re best off leaving the game, but that’s a lot easier said than done. We get attached to games, to stories, to people. But it’s worth knowing that one can expect no help in this regard, and worth the victims being able to find support and assurance that they are not simply blowing things out of proportion.
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To add: People coming to a conclusion or general agreement on a singular issue (or even multiple issues) is not an echo chamber, just like people who are good friends are not a clique. Context matters, and in that regard, there are forum regulars disagreeing in this very thread.
Oh yeah, bouncing onto a thread to go WOW YOU ALL SUCK LOL is also not an argument that deserves fair consideration. Like what goofy ass logic is that? You want to debate something, maybe try providing something to actually discuss. Something less boring than “but what if bitches be lyin’ tho.”
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I know it’s not gonna be popular, but Cujo sounds to me like your classic Geek Social Fallacy carrier. GSF #1 in particular, but with a side of #4.
https://plausiblydeniable.com/five-geek-social-fallacies/
They just want everyone to get along, so the game can thrive. They hate it when something happens that would force them to make choices, because they think having to make choices like that is wrong.
So they try to hedge, and hem, and haw, and just wish everyone would ‘get over it’ and play.
Not defending it. But possibly explaining it.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
I invested those things into the person I was playing opposite of only to have them pit me against another player to compete for their attention. Not just the intimate rp, but story we had spent hours developing and writing out. It all got thrown away in an instant, and the assets I invested with walked away with no ROI because I refused to compete, on an OOC level, with another player for something I felt I had earned and put the time into to warrant.
Did you really just use the term ROI when talking about spending time building a story with someone?
