Why MUSH?
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@MisterBoring I’ve played a few games there. It’s sometimes fun, but it’s just not the same.
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@Faraday Did Storium happen to inspire Ares at all?
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@MisterBoring said in Why MUSH?:
@Faraday Did Storium happen to inspire Ares at all?
Ares had been underway for a long time (since 2007) before Storium existed (2014). The first Ares alpha game had already opened before I even learned about Storium. But as I was designing the web portal, I did look at a lot of different online RP styles - some of the big forum/PBP sites, commercial MUD websites, Storium, Roll20, and more. One concrete thing I adapted from Storium was showing the character icons next to the poses in the web scenes. The earlier versions looked more like wikidot logs - just all text. You can read a bit about the early web prototyping on the Ares Developer Blog.
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The trailing off without resolution is why I don’t RP on forums anymore. At least in a MUSH people don’t start and abandon a story a week.
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The trailing off without resolution is why I don’t RP on forums anymore. At least in a MUSH people don’t start and abandon a story a week.
Yeah, at least with Ares games, it takes 3 months for the story to be abandoned.
I kid, but I really have played so many Ares games that fizzle our within 3 months.
Game-runner of Silent Heaven, a small-town horror MU.
https://silentheaven.org -
@Jumpscare said in Why MUSH?:
Yeah, at least with Ares games, it takes 3 months for the story to be abandoned.
I kid, but I really have played so many Ares games that fizzle our within 3 months.
Sure, but I’ve played on so many PennMUSH games, TinyMUX games, etc. that fizzle out within 3 months too. For as long as the hobby has existed, the vast majority of MUs have never really taken flight. Ares just helps more at least get to the “open” phase.
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Is three months the sweet spot for a MU?
Like, if enterprising people were to build a MU for a very specific story, and plan to try and tell the entire story from start to finish in 3 months (give or take a week or two), would it be a success?
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
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@MisterBoring IMO, a successful MUSH is one where people had fun. I don’t think you can measure success by time alone. I’ve been on games that languished for years with little to no activity - very little fun was had. I’ve also been on others that only lasted a few weeks, but we all had a blast and still talk about RP from those games to this day. I’d say those shorter games were actually more successful.
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@MisterBoring said in Why MUSH?:
Is three months the sweet spot for a MU?
IMHO 2-3 months is just the time you have to “hook” your playerbase. There’s a honeymoon period when a game first opens. If you don’t build critical mass during that period, the game will fail. So rather than plan for a game that only lasts 3 months, I would plan things that will build momentum during those first months.
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In Last One Standing and LA2043, I know it was because the lead storyteller burnt out. In those early months, you need to give your players lots of story opportunities, and actionable and tangible things to do when you’re not around. And you need to be there practically day in and day out.
Launching a game is the easy part.
@Jumpscare said in Why MUSH?:
Yeah, at least with Ares games, it takes 3 months for the story to be abandoned.
I kid, but I really have played so many Ares games that fizzle our within 3 months.
Sure, but I’ve played on so many PennMUSH games, TinyMUX games, etc. that fizzle out within 3 months too. For as long as the hobby has existed, the vast majority of MUs have never really taken flight. Ares just helps more at least get to the “open” phase.
That’s a good point! And I think Ares does a great job of it.
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@MisterBoring said in Why MUSH?:
Is three months the sweet spot for a MU?
Actually, yes. It is. Story time!
Once upon a time when the Earth was young and I first became staff on a MUD (LegendMUD for ye curious) in the late 1990s, Raph Koster was one of the implementors (you may know him as Ultima Online’s Designer Dragon). No, I’m not name dropping here – I think I talked to him twice, it’s not like I know him. (His wife is awesome, though).
Anyhow. Raph Koster did a study on this and reported his findings. There are three cut-off points.
Three months: The average time a player will spend on a game, any game. Once the new shine and sparkle has worn off, many move on to the next new thing.
Eight months: Those who were severely and firmly hooked have now done it all. They start to look for expansions, new things – and end up wandering off to elsewhere in pursuit of those things.
Forever: And finally, there is a core group of players who have found a home. Nothing short of pulling the plug on the game will get these guys to move on.
Any pronouns. Come to Chincoteague. We have ponies. http://keys.aresmush.com
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@L-B-Heuschkel Speaking of Raph Koster, I’ve been meaning to read A Theory of Fun for a bit now. It’s in my pile of unread books.
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@L-B-Heuschkel said in Why MUSH?:
Three months: The average time a player will spend on a game, any game. Once the new shine and sparkle has worn off, many move on to the next new thing.
A tangent but this is why I find the ‘new’ stage of a game exhausting. I know I’m basically RPing into the void with people who won’t stick around or develop anything, but who’re also 200% extra about everything OOC. I tend to be very wary of anything that hasn’t hit the six-month mark.
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@Third-Eye I can relate to that. I used to look for older, established games too. Of course, that’s not exactly helping new games become established.
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@L-B-Heuschkel said in Why MUSH?:
Three months: The average time a player will spend on a game, any game. Once the new shine and sparkle has worn off, many move on to the next new thing.
With the utmost respect to the legendary Koster, I disagree with this assertion. MUSHes lend themselves to long-form storytelling. Their closest parallel IMHO is a TV series with multiple seasons. The idea that TV shows should aim to only be 1-season long just because statistically most TV shows don’t live past the first season is a faulty premise. If you make a good TV show, viewers will stick around for ages. Same for a MUSH.
On the flip side though, it’s still good practice to focus on making the most kick-ass 1st season you can, both to hook new viewers, and in case that’s all you get
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@Faraday The way I interpret it is, the better your thing is, the more players will end up in cathegory three.
Any pronouns. Come to Chincoteague. We have ponies. http://keys.aresmush.com
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@L-B-Heuschkel said in Why MUSH?:
@Faraday The way I interpret it is, the better your thing is, the more players will end up in cathegory three.
Sure, but the question was “is three months the sweet spot for a MU”. If you operate under that belief, you would gear your game toward category one and then nobody would end up in category three
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I love the game lines that I usually play, the topic/world, and being able to create (write). For games like WoD or Fate-like games, I love the tabletop aspect of interacting with that side of things and being able to RP out things based on that. It makes it all feel more fun than regular tabletop. When things happen in-game, we can talk about it in RP, plot next steps, and work through how it impacts characters and the world. It’s always a lot of fun finding players and staff who are really in for the story building and open to ideas. So much fun being creative in that way.
I dislike it when games lose that side of things. The part where we’re “doing things”. Changing the game world, interacting with storylines, leveraging rules systems, and playing the game.
I’ve played games where we’ll spend RL days working through some plot, and it doesn’t feel like it has an impact on the game in any way, shape, or form, and that kind of leads to a feeling I dislike too. I’m not a fan of async either. It’s too hard to keep interested.
I like when games push a lot of the ooc discussions to Discord or channels I can gag. I know we’re all people and we’re a community, but sometimes I don’t wanna hear about someone’s bad day or feelings on whatever spamming through channels I monitor for things related to the game.
