Long or Short? Application Process!
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@Pavel said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
My main concern when it comes to application processes is whether the effort I put in will be returned to me. If I put in a great deal of effort in an application so that it takes days to complete, the least I expect is that staff, in turn, put in some effort to tell decent stories.
If you expect players to put in days of effort for an application, and also expect players to be your primary source of storytelling, that seems to be an unreasonably uneven workload.
That and the usual “if I’m expected to write a novel, I expect that information to actually be used” thing that you mentioned. Which happens so infrequently that we may as well say it never happens.
This… if I have to put in X amount of effort and it doesn’t get at least an equal amount of return, I feel real shitty about a game.
The other thing is when people say things like: Oh, you’ll love it, we do 2 events a week, and blah bleh blah! People will welcome you, RP… then you come along… put in the work, don’t find it to be the case.
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@MisterBoring said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
Additionally, a player should have notes for any mechanics that need explanation. If your character has a Mild Phobia on their sheet, you need to explain that in your stuff.
Such games should, then, have those requirements explicitly detailed somewhere. What mechanics need explanation, what needs to be explained, and why, etc.
A problem I see crop up repeatedly is unwritten expectations that have to be explained over and over again because nobody remembers to write things down, and people end up being annoyed that they do what they think is wanted only to be told that it’s not what is wanted at all.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
BE AN ADULT -
I want a short app process.
But it also helps me to kinda flesh out a character as I go rather than go in with a Malazan: Book of the Fallen length background.
Sometimes I have a concept that I want to work on and flesh out.
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@Pavel said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
Such games should, then, have those requirements explicitly detailed somewhere. What mechanics need explanation, what needs to be explained, and why, etc.
Agreed.
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@MisterBoring said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
@Pavel said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
Such games should, then, have those requirements explicitly detailed somewhere. What mechanics need explanation, what needs to be explained, and why, etc.
Agreed.
Heck, that probably could be its own conversation about information silos, documentation, and reasonable expectations.
Which isn’t something I deal with at work RL at all.
cough
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@Pavel said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
Which isn’t something I deal with at work RL at all.
If I had a dollar for every required piece of documentation that didn’t actually help me at my job, I’d have retired to a nice estate a decade ago.
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Gonna need some definitions of ‘long’ and ‘short.’
I think players should be able to get out of CG fairly quickly, within a day or two if they actually fill in their bit and it makes thematic sense, and I think pre-genned quick-start characters should generally be available. I also think there’s value in mocking up a BG to weed out major thematic misunderstandings or obvious issues, even if it’s not otherwise any guarantee of ‘quality.’
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I liked the comic game apps that everybody wrote like Official Handbook entries but I know I’m like the only person who did; they didn’t at all make a difference in the quality of who got approved, and they scared off anybody who wasn’t super hardcore
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Another factor to consider that I just remembered is that if a player is applying for a role that is of considerable IC power or will have a significant immediate impact on the current plots in the game, a lot of staff (rightly) require a more detailed and lengthy application (and sometimes an interview) to approve the character.
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At the risk of sounding like I’m victim blaming, we also have to be willing to take “yes” for an answer. If staff explicitly say something like “If your background is more then N words, you’re probably going into more detail than we really need,” and I proceed to write a background that’s 5N words in length … that’s not something staff can fix.
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Honestly, these days, as far as backgrounds or mechanical explanatory notes or whatever other stuff a game might want… just give me a questionnaire.
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@Autumn said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
At the risk of sounding like I’m victim blaming, we also have to be willing to take “yes” for an answer. If staff explicitly say something like “If your background is more then N words, you’re probably going into more detail than we really need,” and I proceed to write a background that’s 5N words in length … that’s not something staff can fix.
idk who the victim being blamed in here is — players being blamed for writing more BG than they need? but anyways yeah this is very true and frustrating when it happens. when a game has a maximum word count for BGs, it means that they literally do not need that level of detail and aren’t interested in reading it. i’ve definitely been a part of sending back apps that went over the cap.
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If I have to apply, I’m already gone.
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i don’t play games to do homework and, while i have held my nose a few times, it’s not been an experience I’ve found pleasant. A short bit indicating understanding of a roster or theme is one thing, but my characters bloom into life as I play them. Writing a massive backstory that will be retconned into who my character actually ends up being is a waste of time for everyone involved.
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@Juniper said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
If I have to apply, I’m already gone.
While I understand this and can sometimes agree with it, I’ve also had the experience of playing on games with no application process whatsoever and watched as the game filled up with random trolls and ended up shutting down pretty rapidly.
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Applications serve exactly one purpose: to make sure you and the character are a good fit for the game. The app process should be as short as functionally possible to meet that purpose. More complex themes will necessarily require a more involved application.
That being said, I absolutely prefer a shorter application process and endorse doing the absolute bare minimum to get an app over the line. GET ON THE GRID and start playing.
If your theme requires all players to spend multiple hours in chargen, you may want to consider whether your theme/mechanics can be streamlined or at least offering premade rosters who don’t require much time to get started with. Applying is not playing, and a long application process usually means more staff work as well, and a nonzero population will apply and then never play. It’s worth making this as painless as you can for everyone involved.
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@Trashcan said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
That being said, I absolutely prefer a shorter application process and endorse doing the absolute bare minimum to get an app over the line. GET ON THE GRID and start playing.
I agree with this, and in my opinion the bare minimum should be:
- Application Coherency: The application should be coherently readable and make logical sense. I’ve read enough offenses to the written word in my time in the hobby that bad apps will haunt my afterlife.
- Lore Knowledge: The application should indicate that you have a basic understanding of the MU’s setting. Most games these days have a loredump summary type document somewhere that contains all of the information that literally every character in the world would know, and the application should reflect that.
- Mechanical Knowledge: A large majority of MUs have some sort of mechanical system for conflict and task resolution. Some of these are based on TTRPGs with their own published book lines. Your application should reflect that you are familiar with the core mechanics of the game, and possibly note if you are new to the specific system being used. (Being new to a system shouldn’t be cause to deny an app, but should be brought to staff’s attention so that they can help you learn it until you get up to speed.)
There are some optional additions to this as well:
- Acknowledgement of Responsibility: If an application is for a position of IC power or responsibility (and yes I am aware that allowing PCs as IC leaders is often fraught with peril), then the application should include an acknowledgement that said position requires you play your character in a way that generates positive RP experiences for others and not just yourself.
- Roster History Acknowledgement: In games where the application is for a roster character that has already seen play, the player should acknowledge to the staff that they understand the IC storyline already written for their character. If a character has already developed rivals in game, then the character is dropped back to roster and picked up by someone else, their first scene in the game shouldn’t be one where they are suddenly best buddies with those rivals with no logical reason.
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Like several posters above, I’ve come around to the idea that an app should be as short as it can be… while also demonstrating knowledge, understanding, and ability to work within the themes, setting, and mechanics.
I’m a big fan of bullet points, and of Staff providing a list of details that they want to know (“why is your character in this location,” “how did gaining magic affect your character,” “how are they connected to the game described in our mission statement” for example). I want to see that the character will be able to interact with other characters (don’t send me a loner app unless you’re also sending me info on how they’re going to get out of their shell), and how they’ll fit within what Staff wants the game to be.
And I want it all in bullet points, as short as possible to get that information across.
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@catzilla said in Long or Short? Application Process!:
Do you prefer lengthy/intensive application process? Or a shorter one where you get into play quicker?
I don’t have a single answer to this; both long and short processes have worked for me in the sense of “I got a memorable character and some good RP out of this”, and both have been failures in the same sense.
I think that the length of an application process should be informed by the kind of game being run. A game where everyone is a World War 1 soldier in the Battle of the Somme and it’s expected that characters will die in droves will benefit from making it as fast and easy as possible to get back into play. Similarly with a no-holds-barred PvP-encouraged type of game.
At the other extreme, a game where you’re expected to hold onto the same character for years and build up an extensive in-game history and character relationships doesn’t have to have a lengthy application process, but it’s more tolerable to me since I know I’m not likely to have to do it again any time soon.
People have mentioned the desire that information provided in an app be used in play by staff, which is also vanishingly rare in my experience. I also appreciate getting some indication that my work was actually read during the application process. If I spent hours putting the writeup together, it’s nice if the feedback touches on some of the stuff I wrote about in terms of “we liked this, it fits well with the game” or “this isn’t a great fit, but what about this?” instead of just “your stat math is off, fix it.”
I strongly agree with @Pavel (and others) that if a game has requirements then they ought to be explicitly set out - ideally somewhere that’s as front and center to the players as possible so that it’s difficult to miss. And while I don’t usually write my backgrounds in bullet point format, I do find “here’s the bullet points we’d like your background to cover” super helpful in making sure I cover everything that staff wants to see, and not too much that they don’t.
