Numetal/Retromux
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@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:
@Wikibara Let’s return to the issue then. It sounds like you weren’t writing in a way that jives with the Staff there in the way that they’d prefer, so they showed you the door. I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you, but at the same time, if they had approved you, it sounds like they’re just trying to avoid headaches all around and you’re slightly upset by it.
Sounds to me like they’re trying to “avoid headaches” by having unclear requirements for apps and going by the vibe, and then fucking with an actual person by pretending that it’s a problem with the app instead of admitting that they just don’t like @Wikibara’s eyeliner or something.
I don’t know about “slightly upset” but once upon a time a review of this sort was considered valuable information for the community.
"This is Liberty Hall; you can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard!"
– A. Bertram Chandler -
@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:
Sounds to me like they’re trying to “avoid headaches” by having unclear requirements for apps and going by the vibe, and then fucking with an actual person by pretending that it’s a problem with the app instead of admitting that they just don’t like @Wikibara’s eyeliner or something.
Or it could be that staff continued to provide feedback to them which they then ignored, on repeat, until staff could not deal with it anymore and handed down a ban. It could also be that they themselves said something untoward to a staff member and got banned. It could be that they plagiarized giant portions of a known work of fiction for their backstory.
Until someone from staff or close to staff deigns to post some sort of ban message or otherwise, we won’t know the whole story.
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@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:
I don’t know about “slightly upset” but once upon a time a review of this sort was considered valuable information for the community.
It still is valuable information.
Wikibara, however, tanked their credibility a bit by throwing in the whole ‘the staff are secretly racist’ bit.
ETA: Staffers can and should show people the door that they don’t think will vibe with their game for whatever reason. Just as the players can and should leave a game they don’t vibe with for whatever reason.
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@MisterBoring The ban was posted publicly:
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@catzilla Yeah, I can see that. But I can also see just mentioning that because it was another weird part of a weird experience.
@MisterBoring Yeah, or they could have been, as they said, asking for clarification on incomprehensible feedback, or pointing out catch-22 feedback, or pointing out that they corrected as the feedback requested but the staffer is still giving the same complaint. (Indeed, I’ve been made familiar with the experience of changing what’s asked and having staffer continue to complain about the thing that isn’t there now, and of having staffer complain bitterly that I don’t just say “okay,” and do things that aren’t really possible.)
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@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:
@MisterBoring Yeah, or they could have been, as they said, asking for clarification on incomprehensible feedback, or pointing out catch-22 feedback, or pointing out that they corrected as the feedback requested but the staffer is still giving the same complaint. (Indeed, I’ve been made familiar with the experience of changing what’s asked and having staffer continue to complain about the thing that isn’t there now, and of having staffer complain bitterly that I don’t just say “okay,” and do things that aren’t really possible.)
Well, based on the post before yours that you I guess didn’t read, it looks like the reasons for the ban were, and I’m sort of summarizing here:
- Overly defensive when responding to staff feedback
- Writing of such low quality that the AI question came up
- Causing staff an imbalance in their workloads due to all of their OOC activities interacting with other players.
- Begging players to help with the application, being told by the players to go ask the staffer in question, and then going deer in the headlights.
- Showing signs that they weren’t actually familiar enough with WoD to write a cohesive background.
So yeah, maybe you’re right.
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Speaking from personal experience here, as a helper to staff and a player in a place where I dealt with him for about a year, Numetal/Retromux staff made the right call. Wiki made the wrong call, and keeps calling back. Having seen the ban post in whole, all I thought was “lol, lmao.” As my grams would put it, “He’s a pill.” But anyone who’s read this far already knows it.
For the record I have never made contact with Numetal/Retromux, so the below is no apologism for a certain game or policy, just my general views.
Community curation is often as vibes-based as it is formal. This means that statistically sometimes a person will be excluded from a game when they could have made it better, but it also means that a good leadership team will be erring on the side of caution so that players who could have brought cultural dissonance to a whole game are less likely to make it through approval.
Imagine or recall if you’ve already seen it, how long it can take to eject a bad-for-the-community-but-not-technically-rule-breaking player from a game after approval and then let out a sigh of relief along with me that in at least this case, nobody had to go through that.
What’s the real takeaway, here, though? Always keep receipts. 🧾
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I got no dog in this fight, I’m mostly around here for entertainment value these days when some idiot like a Wikibara pops up and almost nothing ever gets me to post but holy shit, reading that ban announcement for some reason made me so thankful that I don’t mess around with these long-winded, Biblical Length Style application process WoD games anymore. Maybe I’m out of touch these days but that ban post was almost embarrassing to read, lmao. Thing might as well have been nailed to a church door.
Anyway, this thread has been great just every time it comes back up. I love you all, love yourselves too and find a game without an application process and with a bunch of chill people. Amazing stuff, it’s the future for real.
…I do be missin’ WoD once in a while though. BUT ONLY AFTER LIKE 2 AM.
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@BurnNotice said in Numetal/Retromux:
I got no dog in this fight, I’m mostly around here for entertainment value these days when some idiot like a Wikibara pops up and almost nothing ever gets me to post but holy shit, reading that ban announcement for some reason made me so thankful that I don’t mess around with these long-winded, Biblical Length Style application process WoD games anymore.
From what it sounds like, RetroMUX wasn’t looking for a biblical length application, just an application that reflected a basic understanding of written English alongside a working knowledge of the WoD universe.
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@Artifact said in Numetal/Retromux:
@MisterBoring The ban was posted publicly:
lol “we wouldn’t be here if not for the blood, sweat and tears of the community!!” is a lot of a statement. But also if 1-2 hours spent on an application is considered minimal effort and not good enough for a game then woof, probably better to move on. We all have lives, right? RIGHT?!
Not in defense of Wikiwhatever cuz he reads like a Real Problem and I’d ban him too for just being exhausting, but man. Can we normalize not blood, sweat and tearing over a game?
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@bear_necessities said in Numetal/Retromux:
But also if 1-2 hours spent on an application is considered minimal effort and not good enough for a game then woof, probably better to move on. We all have lives, right? RIGHT?!
That really depends on what the 1-2 hours produced. I’ve ran into players who take 2 hours to write two unintelligible sentences in a pose, so it’s feasible that what was written, even though it took 2 hours, was awful.
Amount of Time != Quality
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@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:
@bear_necessities said in Numetal/Retromux:
But also if 1-2 hours spent on an application is considered minimal effort and not good enough for a game then woof, probably better to move on. We all have lives, right? RIGHT?!
That really depends on what the 1-2 hours produced. I’ve ran into players who take 2 hours to write two unintelligible sentences in a pose, so it’s feasible that what was written, even though it took 2 hours, was awful.
Amount of Time != Quality
I don’t disagree but also it is very very very clear from the wording of that post that there’s an expectation that an inappropriate amount of time is spent on applications. Blood, sweat and tears! Let’s normalize not blooding, sweating or tearing over game apps.
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@bear_necessities said in Numetal/Retromux:
I don’t disagree but also it is very very very clear from the wording of that post that there’s an expectation that an inappropriate amount of time is spent on applications.
I believe that inappropriate amount of time is subjective. What one person sees as inappropriate is appropriate to another. So in this case, the amount of time was inappropriate to you and @Wikibara, and probably at least some other non-zero number of people out there.
So if we’re normalizing that, whose subjective opinion are we using to set the baseline?
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@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:
I believe that inappropriate amount of time is subjective. What one person sees as inappropriate is appropriate to another.
Okie dokie artichokie.
