Liberation Drama!?

[Gashlycrumb]

@Roz I have already ceded the “It’s Not Abuse” Point. Call it something else, I will adapt, it’s not my call.

i don’t know that i’ve ever played on a game with you. you called yourself “legitimately extremely annoying.”

I know there are some people on here who find me extremely annoying. Who am I to say they are wrong? I over-explain shit and I write these +requests that are too damn long and then I go, “But no, that’s not what I mean, I’m sorry,” and do it all over again, and I talk funny and I’m moody and I do other annoying shit like fail at sarcasm.

Are you not annoying?

Even if I was annoying in other, worse ways, like Super Lice and Eternal Stench, covert punishment is messed up.

ETA: It’s cheating to refuse a PC their turn.

[Roz]

@Gashlycrumb said:

@Roz I have already ceded the “It’s Not Abuse” Point. Call it something else, I will adapt, it’s not my call.

i hadn’t read your replies as such. that’s really the only part i was arguing, so godspeed

I know there are some people on here who find me extremely annoying. Who am I to say they are wrong? I over-explain shit and I write these +requests that are too damn long and then I go, “But no, that’s not what I mean, I’m sorry,” and do it all over again, and I talk funny and I’m moody and I do other annoying shit like fail at sarcasm.

okay. i mentioned it in the context of you presenting the response you eventually received (the “you don’t take no for an answer and i didnt’ want to deal”) and then seemed to connect it with “i am indeed very annoying” so i took that to mean you didn’t disagree with the idea that you were being a difficult player to deal with. that’s all. i just meant that i was going off of your words.

Are you not annoying?

lol probably?

[Gashlycrumb]

@Roz said:

i hadn’t read your replies as such. that’s really the only part i was arguing, so godspeed

This kind of thing is probably in part responsible for me seeming to refuse to “take no for an answer,” but it’s really unpredictable who this will come up with, unnerving when that changes seemingly at the drop of a hat, and has been completely largely absent in every aspect of my life except the MU-related since I was like, 24.

ETA that I do try, at times even so far as asking AI to check my tone and clarity for me, which isn’t helpful either, because it always says more or less what I already think but things still go pear-shaped.

[MidnightCreature]

@Third-Eye !

So I was looking for a version of this that still had the timestamp in the screenshot from when I uploaded it to the game boards. The images under the Spoiler tags are INCREDIBLY large but I am but a forum noob so I’m not sure how to break up the formatting.

Here’s my write-up…
||SeptWriteupShuffle Version.png||

Soon after I uploaded this, it was removed by Siren. Who then responded to me in a hostile way about it.

Sometime later this version appeared…
!||SirenVersionPart1.png||
||||

I paged her soon after her version went up on the boards…
||18:00:24.290 You paged Siren with ‘Aside from the part about Only-Ghosts that is almost identical to what I wrote.’.
18:01:05.286 Siren(S) pages: Well I’m glad we’re on the same page! The only part I remembered from yours was the ‘Don’t fuck it up’ part, which I included as a nod to you for your amusement.
18:06:10.734 You paged Siren with ‘Thank you, I guess. Though I might have liked a drafting credit for the work I put in?’.
18:07:06.141 Siren(S) pages: We didn’t use your work, Addison. That was created by Kraken and I, and neither of us have access to what you wrote.
18:07:37.810 You paged Siren with ‘Are you saying you don’t have access to the logs from when you read it?’.
18:07:59.983 Siren(S) pages: No, I don’t log things outside of scenes. And by the time we started writing it, it was lost in my backlog.||
(I know I have a screenshot of this transcript from somewhere but I haven’t found it yet.)

Siren initially acknowledges having seen my original manuscript and even says that she remembered a specific part of it well enough to deliberately incorporate it into the new version. Once I ask about if I could be given drafting credit, however, she becomes noticeably more defensive about it.

It could ~in theory~ have been rewritten entirely by hand, but there are several red flags that resemble typical LLM-assisted rewriting, especially the kind of output produced when a source is fed into ChatGPT and asked to be condensed or given a different tone. So believe they did, knowing what I do about how LLMs process files.

Siren’s version repeatedly uses “it’s not X, it’s Y” phrasing and there are several places where one of those statements appears to connect two ideas that don’t really logically follow from one another, along with vague affirmative language about hope, unity, growth, etc etc. This is, in my experience, consistent with the kind of stuff you get that shows up when an existing document is run through an LLM and a rewrite is requested. (This is too tragic! Make it sound more affirmative!)

I don’t know which one of them fed my write-up to the Slop Machine, Siren claims that they both worked on it together.

After this happened there have been plenty of other posts showing up on the BB which showed suspect signs of LLM use, or at least extremely low effort. (ChatGPT give me ten plot hooks!). There have been multiple instances where Kraken spends time game on praising the use of LLMs.

Kraken mentioned on channel that he intended to use ChatGPT to rewrite or rework the website/wiki. The website contains close to six years of accumulated design work, setting material, independently developed content, and project history from various people. Even as a “joke” I find it deeply disrespectful to the hours of labor and love people put into the project. Effectively stripping down years of setting material and replacing it with low-effort slop.

In a different conversation with him, he told me that creating new content was a waste of time and he was fine with borrowing material from other games. I am pretty well aware of how Sundance would feel about this(Badly!). So he’s gone on the record to say he’s pretty fine to helping himself to other people’s work even when it doesn’t relate to an LLM.

Unfortunately this is not the only issue I’ve had over the years in regards to how Siren acknowledges(or more appropriately doesn’t) me and my work for the the game. This is simply one of the more annoying incidents.

[MidnightCreature]

Apparently you are only allowed so many spoilers…

Alas!

[Gashlycrumb]

[Kestrel]

@MidnightCreature said:
Kraken mentioned on channel that he intended to use ChatGPT to rewrite or rework the website/wiki.

[Gashlycrumb]

Because it’s the only way to fix this?

[Pavel]

@Gashlycrumb More game documentation needs to be written in APA format. Even better if they include citations.

[nobody]

so you get banned from a game and then start writing up paragraphs on paragraphs about how they’re totally plagiarizing you and stealing your work and chatgpting everything.

I haven’t played there in ages but I got curious after reading, so I hopped on to look and-

The full post is about 5x longer that the section you cut it into, doesn’t ping as LLM written on any of the detectors, and, a bit more significantly considering the timing of your post, the bbpost and all of this happened 4 months ago.

This reads more like sour grapes than anything else.

It’s ok to be upset about a game, but it’s important to remember that this is a pretend world of darkness game where we play creatures of the night. Take a breath, go outside, do something else with your time. Don’t spiral, just move on. Or, you seem to have strong opinions and a grasp of the lore, start your own game.

There’s only like 2 active ones right now- see if you can garner an audience.

Just advice- I’m not going to keep engaging because I haven’t MUSHed in a long time, and only hop on now and then to chat with a couple friends who don’t use Discord. Take the advice or don’t.

[Third Eye]

@nobody said:
The full post is about 5x longer that the section you cut it into, doesn’t ping as LLM written on any of the detectors, and, a bit more significantly considering the timing of your post, the bbpost and all of this happened 4 months ago.

This reads more like sour grapes than anything else.

Yeah this is kinda why I wanted more information, it feels like the kind of claim that’s sometimes designed just to get sympathy in these parts. Who the hell knows, though? I literally don’t even go here.

[MidnightCreature]

@nobody said:

so you get banned from a game and then start writing up paragraphs on paragraphs about how they’re totally plagiarizing you and stealing your work and chatgpting everything.

I haven’t played there in ages but I got curious after reading, so I hopped on to look and-

Well, you certainly have an awful lot to say for someone who supposedly doesn’t care and seems to feel very strongly that I shouldn’t care either, but I’ll humor you…

“I ran it through an AI detector and it didn’t ping!” doesn’t address I what actually presented and I’m not especially when you didn’t even care to mention what detector you used or how you reached that conclusion. I never claimed a detector proved anything.

My claim was based on the relationship between the original document, the surrounding circumstances, several very obvious LLM-style rewriting tells, and staff’s open admission to using LLMs in later conversations.

The fact that this happened four months ago is equally irrelevant. I’m discussing it now because it fits into a larger, continuing problem: the people running the game still seem perfectly comfortable helping themselves to my work and attempting to access my Google Docs after removing me, and after a year of minimizing my contributions to the game.

Would this complaint somehow be more legitimate if I had immediately rushed here four months ago and blown everything up publicly? Or is it possible I tried other avenues first?

Ultimately, your response boils down to “my AI detector didn’t flag it” and “I personally don’t care about this, so you shouldn’t either.”

People put enormous amounts of unpaid creative labor into these communities and generally do care about what happens to that work. If you admittedly don’t participate much, don’t contribute, and generally exist outside the MUSH ecosystem, maybe you should be the one to go outside and touch grass.

Telling someone how much they’re allowed to care about something admittedly “barely participate in” is just condescending.

[Taika]

@midnightcreature Two of the links in the post with the image look broken. Have to click through to see them.

[MidnightCreature]

@Taika That’s intentional. They’re under a spoiler tag.

[Taika]

@MidnightCreature Oh! My bad, then!

[Kestrel]

@nobody said:
I’m not going to keep engaging because I haven’t MUSHed in a long time, and only hop on now and then to chat with a couple friends who don’t use Discord.

This is always an odd thing to say while choosing to engage, on a seemingly anonymous account that only posts about one particular game.

No dog in this race, don’t eat seafood, but I know fish when I smell it.

[MidnightCreature]

This post is deleted!