Liberation Drama!?
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@Gashlycrumb More game documentation needs to be written in APA format. Even better if they include citations.
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so you get banned from a game and then start writing up paragraphs on paragraphs about how they’re totally plagiarizing you and stealing your work and chatgpting everything.
I haven’t played there in ages but I got curious after reading, so I hopped on to look and-
The full post is about 5x longer that the section you cut it into, doesn’t ping as LLM written on any of the detectors, and, a bit more significantly considering the timing of your post, the bbpost and all of this happened 4 months ago.
This reads more like sour grapes than anything else.
It’s ok to be upset about a game, but it’s important to remember that this is a pretend world of darkness game where we play creatures of the night. Take a breath, go outside, do something else with your time. Don’t spiral, just move on. Or, you seem to have strong opinions and a grasp of the lore, start your own game.
There’s only like 2 active ones right now- see if you can garner an audience.
Just advice- I’m not going to keep engaging because I haven’t MUSHed in a long time, and only hop on now and then to chat with a couple friends who don’t use Discord. Take the advice or don’t.
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@nobody said:
The full post is about 5x longer that the section you cut it into, doesn’t ping as LLM written on any of the detectors, and, a bit more significantly considering the timing of your post, the bbpost and all of this happened 4 months ago.This reads more like sour grapes than anything else.
Yeah this is kinda why I wanted more information, it feels like the kind of claim that’s sometimes designed just to get sympathy in these parts. Who the hell knows, though? I literally don’t even go here.
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so you get banned from a game and then start writing up paragraphs on paragraphs about how they’re totally plagiarizing you and stealing your work and chatgpting everything.
I haven’t played there in ages but I got curious after reading, so I hopped on to look and-
Well, you certainly have an awful lot to say for someone who supposedly doesn’t care and seems to feel very strongly that I shouldn’t care either, but I’ll humor you…
“I ran it through an AI detector and it didn’t ping!” doesn’t address I what actually presented and I’m not especially when you didn’t even care to mention what detector you used or how you reached that conclusion. I never claimed a detector proved anything.
My claim was based on the relationship between the original document, the surrounding circumstances, several very obvious LLM-style rewriting tells, and staff’s open admission to using LLMs in later conversations.
The fact that this happened four months ago is equally irrelevant. I’m discussing it now because it fits into a larger, continuing problem: the people running the game still seem perfectly comfortable helping themselves to my work and attempting to access my Google Docs after removing me, and after a year of minimizing my contributions to the game.
Would this complaint somehow be more legitimate if I had immediately rushed here four months ago and blown everything up publicly? Or is it possible I tried other avenues first?
Ultimately, your response boils down to “my AI detector didn’t flag it” and “I personally don’t care about this, so you shouldn’t either.”
People put enormous amounts of unpaid creative labor into these communities and generally do care about what happens to that work. If you admittedly don’t participate much, don’t contribute, and generally exist outside the MUSH ecosystem, maybe you should be the one to go outside and touch grass.
Telling someone how much they’re allowed to care about something admittedly “barely participate in” is just condescending.
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@midnightcreature Two of the links in the post with the image look broken. Have to click through to see them.
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@Taika That’s intentional. They’re under a spoiler tag.
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@MidnightCreature Oh! My bad, then!
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@nobody said:
I’m not going to keep engaging because I haven’t MUSHed in a long time, and only hop on now and then to chat with a couple friends who don’t use Discord.This is always an odd thing to say while choosing to engage, on a seemingly anonymous account that only posts about one particular game.
No dog in this race, don’t eat seafood, but I know fish when I smell it.
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This post is deleted! -
AI detectors don’t work.
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@nobody said:
I’m not going to keep engaging because I haven’t MUSHed in a long time, and only hop on now and then to chat with a couple friends who don’t use Discord.This is always an odd thing to say while choosing to engage, on a seemingly anonymous account that only posts about one particular game.
No dog in this race, don’t eat seafood, but I know fish when I smell it.
That’s a fair thing to say. I played on Lib 3+ years ago and hadn’t MU*'d in a while since, but still check this place out now and then. I saw the activity in a thread about a game I used to play on so I commented about how only now saying any of this after getting banned reads more sour grapes than actual abuse. If you look back in the thread a bit, a number of people agree with it not being abuse, so it’s not like I’m even saying anything new.
Additionally, not wanting to engage with someone who, per previous posts on the topic, doesn’t take no for an answer and won’t let things go is just a general ‘too old for this shit’ disinterest in participating in that kind of argument, not some secret agenda.
but absolutely a fair call out.
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the people running the game still seem perfectly comfortable helping themselves to my work and attempting to access my Google Docs after removing me, and after a year of minimizing my contributions to the game.
While their alleged minimising of your contributions is regrettable, it’s a fairly frequent condition of entry that anything you contribute to the game can be used by the game. And when you say attempting to access your Google Docs, do you mean they are attempting to access something that has never been accessible by them, or something that you have since restricted? Those are very different situations.
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Ultimately, your response boils down to “I personally don’t care about this, so you shouldn’t either.”
That’s pretty much the current (fairly long standing) pattern 'round this corner of the hobby.
Spend ten or a hundred hours of your free time doing creative work to contribute to a shared fun space, then find that you are hurt and angry when somebody denies you a share in the fun but uses (and takes credit for) your work? How very childish of you, it’s just a game and your contribution can’t be monetised or anything.
Agree to GM but spend your time chauffeuring your besties around in Cheaty-Cheaty-Bang-Bang while ignoring everyone else, treating the two minutes it would take to say, “I refuse to GM for you, pound sand or leave,” to somebody as a Herculean task and see them squirm trying to find a path to inclusion? How very appropriate of you, you’re just too old for this shit.
It’s this flavour, except the peasant who ‘votes with their feet’ loses their life if they fail to establish themselves as an alpine goat or something, while the MUer who fails to find a better game or enjoy themselves as much writing a novel just loses a hobby.
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So basically, you read some bad things other people had said about me and decided that gave you a get-out-of-jail-free card to come in, make assumptions, and talk down to me, and then claim you’re not here to stir the pot. Reducing everything I said to sour grapes because I didn’t post about it on your preferred timetable.
If you genuinely had a “too old for this shit” disinterest in engaging, you could simply have not engaged in the first place.
I largely don’t disagree with you here. I obviously don’t expect the game runners to go through and scrub every trace of material I ever contributed. I was working with the understanding that much of this was collaborative work intended for the game. I worked like this under Sundance and Griffin for years. I understand what this sort of collaboration looks like.
A lot of what is currently sitting in my vault is material I developed while Sundance was still active, including systems she had approved or wanted implemented as far back as 2024, along with plot scripts I was unable to progress because of administrative bottlenecks and +jobs that were never actually handed over to me.
That’s a small facet of what I mean by minimizing my contributions. A lot of my work spent months or years sitting in administrative limbo instead of being implemented, even when Sundance had already approved it or specifically requested it be put up on the game-site.
Links to some of these documents were actually sitting in the +jobs system so they could actively be viewed, reviewed, and used by Sundance. Kraken closed all of those jobs a couple of months ago, effectively tossing all the +job side development communication in the garbage, and said they could simply borrow systems from another game instead,
The issue here is that there suddenly seems to be renewed interest in that developmental material now that I’m no longer around to participate in it or be credited as a contributor. Which was also an issue for Siren while I was still there.
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