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A Constructive Arx Thread
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@bear_necessities said in A Constructive Arx Thread:
@Narson I can answer that. For me, it’s a geniune lack of understanding about the Faith. I don’t know if there are any ceremonies written down, I don’t know what it means to be a member of the Faith or a Godsworn, I don’t even know where people get the prayers that they RP during Assembly of Peers, etc.
Honestly? We make it up. A lot of the Faith detail between the lore is bullshit bingo - make it up, find what works, keep rolling with it. Is there a way to overcome that? like a FAQ along the lines of ‘So you are thinking of playing a Godsworn…’?
@IoleRae said in A Constructive Arx Thread:
I was very, very, very unsuccessful in my attempts to be engaged with the Faith AT ALL with my PC that had pretty significant ties to Solace for a while. I eventually gave up after several months of all of my attempts being unsuccessful (my messengers were straight up ignored). It was a pretty un-fun experience, and did not lead me to being interested in trying again on another character. I had a pretty large hook thing I kept trying to throw/get a bite on (there’s an area in Elwood lands that’s set aside for Solace at this point) and just got noooooooooowhere.
I am genuinely sorry to hear that. Can I ask, did you try going around Solace? Or was that line of reporting even clear? Just to think about how we might have made it easier (I do know with the rosterings etc, things can get dropped, and genuinely I’d love to know if there are ways we could make faith interaction easier - and maybe there aren’t!)
When someone shows you who they are, over and over again? Believe them.
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I did not try going around Solace, no.
Against the rules of the game to “make” people interact with you, and going over their heads would have been just that. They didn’t want to play with me, so I’m not going to try and force somebody to participate in my plot shit. It wasn’t really an opportunity that made sense for anything past Solace.
the entity previously known as Sunny
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@Narson said in A Constructive Arx Thread:
Honestly? We make it up. A lot of the Faith detail between the lore is bullshit bingo - make it up, find what works, keep rolling with it. Is there a way to overcome that? like a FAQ along the lines of ‘So you are thinking of playing a Godsworn…’?
I do realize it’s generally made up, but it feels almost like - I don’t know how to put this, like the stuff that got made up is canon now except I don’t know what the stuff is that got made up and I PERSONALLY would feel uncomfortable coming in and making up stuff on my own. I’m really great at coming up with stuff but not if I don’t have any basis with which to start from, you know what I mean?
I think a FAQ would be great. But there should also be theme files of common ceremonies, prayers, important days/events, etc.
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@bear_necessities making a faith faq is a great idea and idk why we never did besides that Roz stopped being a priest and I’m super lazy
let it be a challenge to you
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@sao Probably that. I’m a big ol’ Snorlax.
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I don’t play Faith characters (though it appeals to me) because it is unclear what I should be doing and/or what I should know IC. I don’t need a super break down but I don’t know how all the ceremonies/sermons/whatever should be done, how often I should be doing ‘prayers’, what I should be making fuss about people not doing. Basically, it is to vague for me to want to play part of the Faith as anything more than a bit of side fluff.
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I guess the other side of it is I heard recently that the Gods aren’t supposed to be beings but “ideals” or something but there’s been a lot of stuff that’s gone on that contradicts that too and I don’t know, maybe I just fundamentally don’t understand religion on Arx to begin with.
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@bear_necessities said in A Constructive Arx Thread:
@Narson I can answer that. For me, it’s a geniune lack of understanding about the Faith. I don’t know if there are any ceremonies written down, I don’t know what it means to be a member of the Faith or a Godsworn, I don’t even know where people get the prayers that they RP during Assembly of Peers, etc.
Super quick Faith Primer (as based on my time on Arx and thus may not be entirely accurate to current situations)!
The Faith of the Pantheon is a high-ceremony state faith built around 13 gods. It’s a syncretic faith, which means that godsworn (the ordained priests) are not priests of X god, but priests of the Faith as a whole. The Archlectors are an administrative position that indicates a godsworn who is in charge of trying to keep the volunteers - the disciples - from going off the rails. They’re not ‘the only priest who speaks for Mangata’ or anything. The Legates are similar, except that they have additional adminstrative responsibilities and serve as Voices of the Dominus, who is the Voice of the Pantheon, and fantasy pope.
Tenets and dogma: The Faith is a very present, action-oriented Faith. The gods each represent a virtue that the faithful should strive to embody, or an aspect of the natural world it’s important to venerate. You do not get to say ‘I worship Mangata but not the Sentinel’ unless you want to be a heretic. Also, for the vast majority of the Faith, a ‘god’ isn’t a person/entity, it’s the virtue that entity represents. Someone saying, “I don’t like Sentinel” or “I don’t worship Gloria” is saying they they’re a liar or that they’re dishonorable or a coward. As such, virtuous behavior is the concrete display of the virtues: honoring one’s vows, being a good lord of the land, being generous, being honorable in war even when other options for victory exist, etc. Sin, likewise, is the display of things that are NOT virtuous: betraying your word, being dishonest, cowardice in battle, etc.
Most godsworn priests don’t necessarily have a lot of piety. The Faith is a good way for common-born and nobles born low on the family totem pole to gain power, wealth, and prestige. You get a lot of very ambitious types who say the right words, but are happy to take bribes and stab backs if it gets them closer to the life they want. Again, think High Catholic Church, when it had a lot of power. You could have a great vicar of your village, but when you got to the cities, a lot of people were preaching one thing while doing another.
None of the worship ceremonies are very ‘set in stone’. We know that there are Canticles - songs of faith - devoted to each god and those who, throughout history, have strongly displayed the virtues associated with that god, but we don’t have those written down at not. Most prayers are made up on the spot, and where the Lost Gods are concerned, that’s probably even IC, since they weren’t worshipped until an IC decade or so, ago.
A godsworn doesn’t really have to be a ‘great priest’. You can be a warrior who just didn’t want to deal with their family anymore, or someone who just really likes the idea of having a steady paycheck from the Church.
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@bear_necessities said in A Constructive Arx Thread:
I guess the other side of it is I heard recently that the Gods aren’t supposed to be beings but “ideals” or something but there’s been a lot of stuff that’s gone on that contradicts that too and I don’t know, maybe I just fundamentally don’t understand religion on Arx to begin with.
Yep - most of the populace think they are simply ideals. Including most of the Faith. That Gods aren’t really real things. Obviously PCs largely know that isn’t the case!
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We do have SOME prayers and ceremonies written down, but they’re like… optional, player-created resources that float around for people to use if they want to.
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I’m not even playing a Faith Character, but that Theology 5 means I should maybe know some of the things.
Mummy Pun? MUMMY PUN!
She/her -
@Jennkryst Helpfully, lore theology 1-5 should help you with some of what that means.
edit: and yes i would put that in a faith faq if i got off my butt and wrote one
let it be a challenge to you
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Probably worth saying, that there is a lot of institutional memory etc where Sao, Roz, myself, others, have been debating, taking our hashed out understandings to Apos, getting him to mark our messy homework etc to find out nuances and details in what the lore tells us about the faith. So I hope no-one takes it that I’m dismissing the apparently curve that can be there, just trying to think of ways we might be able to soften that gradient just a little bit.
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@sao said in A Constructive Arx Thread:
@Jennkryst Helpfully, lore theology 1-5 should help you with some of what that means.
edit: and yes i would put that in a faith faq if i got off my butt and wrote one
NEW SECRET COMMAND UNLOCKED
(… okay, maybe not secret, if I bothered to read half the help files)
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Against the rules of the game to “make” people interact with you, and going over their heads would have been just that.
I’m sorry you had a bad time! I love playing a priest but it can be challenging to get plot traction. But just for everyone’s future knowledge, you can definitely just go around someone if you aren’t getting responses. The person “above” them isn’t going to page the people not responding them and tell them they have to RP with you. You’re just taking a different avenue via different people. If there’s something you absolutely need an org head for you can also request.
as previously stated, good day.
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I honestly don’t see a way it could have been anything else, but that was probably both situational and my own lack of being used to things working this way. I do appreciate the suggestion.
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@Narson Nobody takes King’s Own characters, either. I’ve spent years trying to figure it out and the best I’ve come up with is that it, like Godsworn, means you can’t do other things. Primarily marriage, but I think there’s also an idea that if you are King’s Own that’s all you are and all you can do. I imagine this applies to Faith/Solace, too, in addition to the lore knowledge issues.
It’s a niche, which is great and fun if you’re into exploring a thing deeply, but not appealing if you want to do many things broadly. Anyway, I decided it’s fine. I can do a KO action with everyone on it and have personal relationships with everyone, etc.
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@farfalla I think the existence of discipleship has really hurt the Faith being able to recruit godsworn. Generally speaking, being a disciple AND being able to stay noble AND be married AND have kids is just more appealing on an OOC level than just being a godsworn. I mean, I absolutely picked a godsworn because I saw ‘can’t get married or have children’ and went FUCK YEAH, but my id is the opposite of many other people’s.
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@Pyrephox said in A Constructive Arx Thread:
@farfalla I think the existence of discipleship has really hurt the Faith being able to recruit godsworn. Generally speaking, being a disciple AND being able to stay noble AND be married AND have kids is just more appealing on an OOC level than just being a godsworn. I mean, I absolutely picked a godsworn because I saw ‘can’t get married or have children’ and went FUCK YEAH, but my id is the opposite of many other people’s.
See, I feel the opposite way in regards to Whispers no longer being allowed to be Noble. I think it hurt the org.
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@Pyrephox As a priest (miss you Tomwell! xoxox) I had a lot of challenges with discipleship. Because so many people do play it as “priest but without vows or restrictions.” I had disciples tell me that I couldn’t run a Faith event because it was “their” god. I’d honestly love to see a lot of discipleships reworked to avoid some of this, though for the ones that are larger @orgs I’m not sure how to approach it. But yeah, guys, if you’re a disciple it means you’re sweeping the shrine or picking up all the sticks near Petrichor’s altar, not that you’re priest-lite.
