Bannings
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@Jennkryst Don’t look. Just leave them to stew in their pit.
The reactions to my departure told me a great deal. I haven’t looked back since.
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I just woke up (west coast shit) and I still have feelings I’m trying to process about this, so, sorry for bumping this again but I’m literally not sure where else to put it.
I was pretty emotionally fine through most of that. Legitimately trying to offer advice. Honestly, the bannings weren’t even my major concern – it’s accountability and improvement, the two points I listed, in whatever form they take. I think that’s what’s been missing, and seeing people falling right into the same toxic shit they’d been doing before was what prompted me to even post over there in the first place. I’d been good about keeping my distance. I wasn’t going to get into any kind of major debate, but then I was asked to give something.
I took it on good faith. What I posted yesterday on MSB amounted to hours of stress and thought, emotional labor that I really was putting out for the good of the board. I knew they wouldn’t be popular thoughts with the crowd there, but they were genuine ones. I kept my criticism laser-focused on staff actions, and the one time someone felt caught in the crossfire, I apologized.
And I was pretty okay, though I think my exhaustion was starting to show, when I was called a bully doing mean girl shit for that. I didn’t think I was going to change anything immediately, but maybe I could give them some things to think about and chew on.
The blatant attempt at manipulation and gaslighting (actual gaslighting, as in, trying to make me question my whole reality, not the colloquial way it’s been used as lying) at the end, though? That wounded me, I’m not going to lie. Partially because it was so clumsy and, honestly, how did they think that was going to work on me? But mostly because it was coming from the one person who looked like they were really trying to engage. That was some cold, evil shit.
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Honestly, and this isn’t official mod talk or anything, I don’t think it’s healthy to go over there (or bring their stuff here) to rehash and go over things. It’s picking at a scab at best and twisting a knife at worst.
Obviously I ain’t gonna stop you, but to put on my teacher voice for a moment: It’s your own time you’re wasting. They aren’t going to back down from their position any more than you’re gonna back down from yours. A clean break is better.
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So, I agree with just about everything Roz has said here, but there is one thing that I wanted to touch upon.
BMD is not a protest of MSB.
Perhaps not, but I think that is going to be the stigma and perception that BMD will always have to contend with, regardless of whatever those on BMD may think about it. Because of the reasons you stated here, all of which are valid reasons for deciding to shut off of MSB, this is going to be the perception. And this will be the excuse that some(not all)of MSB will leverage in order to continue this, in my view, a one-sided type of tribalism. A particular of level of antagonism that BMD are the bad ones here who’re out here slandering the name of ‘kinder, gentler MSB’.
In my view, I think the less folks here post about MSB, the better it’ll be. Because we know they read, and they’re going to feel justified in their actions, regardless of whatever we or posters on MSB are going to feel about it. To me, it smacks of a certain level of cognitive dissonance, but at this point, that’s neither here nor there. But my point is the same, I don’t believe there is anything to be gained by continuing talking about MSB. The staff here has already demonstrated that they are not going to act in such a manner, and have stated to hold them accountable if similar were to ever happen. That’s key here, is the self-awareness of being able to take accountability.
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Echoing @Pavel here. It’s really not healthy to continue to pursue this.
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Ultimately it’s in BMD’s best interest to just do our thing and ignore anything said and done on MSB.
But there were also several people - The Three
and everyone who remains banned - who were directly accused of things that were let to stand unchallenged, and I think it’s very fair for those people to want to express their feelings about that here, considering they literally can’t do it there. The Three are bullies and trolls, and everyone still banned is now painted as having sent some horrible DMs or whatever, which is all wildly unfair and it’s important to say so. I think if people need to discuss it within the community for a day or two it’s understandable. Not everyone was available to post yesterday in the moment so I think it’s reasonable to give them space to still say what they want to say. And for me to say that I’m sorry you all were treated this way, the accusations are ridiculous and unfair, and you didn’t deserve any of it. -
Skimmed to the end of that thread because Jesus fuck do I not have the spoons to listen to the mods over there explaining why they shouldn’t listen to the community, and I gotta say my main takeaway is I hate that the mansplainiest dude I’ve ever interacted with now has the unilateral power to get the final word on any topic and shut down a thread.
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The blatant attempt at manipulation and gaslighting (actual gaslighting, as in, trying to make me question my whole reality, not the colloquial way it’s been used as lying) at the end, though? That wounded me, I’m not going to lie. Partially because it was so clumsy and, honestly, how did they think that was going to work on me? But mostly because it was coming from the one person who looked like they were really trying to engage. That was some cold, evil shit.
Yeah, I read that and kind of just was slackjawed at the audacity of it. But I want to say I have so much admiration for you and your ability to keep pushing back on it.
I want to be you in those situations when I grow up.
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@GF Yeah but he’s King Turd of Shit Mountain so.
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Trying to stop talking but also can’t stop won’t stop
It’s also incredibly telling that issues keep springing up. There was the ‘I do not know what I am allowed to do without being banned’ and the fact that multiple posters, including staff, immediately begin to attack. Not bullies at all.
The biggest thing, which I cannot stress enough, or stop pointing out, is the hypocrisy of the ‘if people do not like it, they can leave and make their own place’ - anybody there who felt unwelcome could have left at any time and made their own place.
Instead, they would rather kick people out and set things on fire, because it was never about making MSB a nice place where everyone can just get along and not be a bully (because there are clearly plenty of bullies left, see above). Getting everyone banned was actually about hurting others, whether by expulsion from the community, or having no push back when it comes to hurting new people after making a clever name change disguise.
Which is also why we can never have our bans lifted. Not only would it be an admission of being wrong in the first place, but it would also be like stitching up a cut when some (not all, but certainly some) would rather leave the knife in, and maybe even twist it a bit further.
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@Jennkryst It comes down to one particular thing, in my mind. Which is controlling the narrative. If you can control the narrative, you control how people will view you in a positive light, even if you’ve done questionable or shitty things.
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@Snackness Hey. That’s my crown.
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Honestly, and this isn’t official mod talk or anything, I don’t think it’s healthy to go over there (or bring their stuff here) to rehash and go over things. It’s picking at a scab at best and twisting a knife at worst.
Obviously I ain’t gonna stop you, but to put on my teacher voice for a moment: It’s your own time you’re wasting. They aren’t going to back down from their position any more than you’re gonna back down from yours. A clean break is better.
I do get this, and this sentiment.
All I can say is I’m a dumbass.
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Honestly, and this isn’t official mod talk or anything, I don’t think it’s healthy to go over there (or bring their stuff here) to rehash and go over things. It’s picking at a scab at best and twisting a knife at worst.
Obviously I ain’t gonna stop you, but to put on my teacher voice for a moment: It’s your own time you’re wasting. They aren’t going to back down from their position any more than you’re gonna back down from yours. A clean break is better.
I do get this, and this sentiment.
All I can say is I’m a dumbass.
We pretend to be vampires and nobles and semi-decent people with mysterious backstories on crappy internet text games. We’re all dumbasses.
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@Jennkryst said in Bannings:
Getting everyone banned was actually about hurting others, whether by expulsion from the community, or having no push back when it comes to hurting new people after making a clever name change disguise.
While I don’t think this is correct, I can certainly see why you feel that way. I’m more inclined to blame incompetence than malice. They mistook their role as community enforcers rather than community stewards, and rather than acknowledge their mistake they doubled down on it. In response to a stressful situation they escalated in panic when they should’ve taken a moment to reflect. That’s when the community contract was broken.
It’s an easy pitfall. You see it all over society, to sometimes (often?) tragic results. People have authority, and start believing their job is to enforce that authority, rather than act in accorance to the underlying purpose for which they were given authority to start with. Sometimes it’s malicious, but often its just a mindset people fall into after a while. That doesn’t lessen the damage it can do to their community, and it doesn’t absolve them either, mind.
But I don’t think they were out to hurt people.
At this point there’s not much to do but accept the split and move on. Was it unnecessary? Yes. Badly handled by MSB mod team? I think so. But ultimately they don’t, and have made that clear. All the arguments have already been made, and rebuffed. When you get to that stage, there’s nothing left to do but move on. Rehashing it there, or even here, will only bring you (generic you, and even me) frustration and disappointment.
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Honestly, and this isn’t official mod talk or anything, I don’t think it’s healthy to go over there (or bring their stuff here) to rehash and go over things. It’s picking at a scab at best and twisting a knife at worst.
Obviously I ain’t gonna stop you, but to put on my teacher voice for a moment: It’s your own time you’re wasting. They aren’t going to back down from their position any more than you’re gonna back down from yours. A clean break is better.
I do get this, and this sentiment.
All I can say is I’m a dumbass.
We pretend to be vampires and nobles and semi-decent people with mysterious backstories on crappy internet text games. We’re all dumbasses.
Hey, stop looking at my metaplot notes.
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@lordbelh This was actually two ideas that got pushed together. I did not mean that it was exclusively meant to hurt by this one person - it was meant to hurt by many people, the name-changer just happens to be one of them. I should edit for clarification when work slows down later.
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They mistook their role as community enforcers rather than community stewards, and rather than acknowledge their mistake they doubled down on it.
I would argue against this point specifically because I was told, directly (and someone can find those DMs somewhere around here to confirm) that Gany didn’t view her job as a steward. She was the authority and did not like her authority being impugned.
To that end, I think that, sure, the initial overreaction could be described as a kneejerk display of incompetence. But the doubling-down and continued assertions of superiority? That’s malicious.
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It might not be healthy, but let’s not pretend as a hobby we have ever been about making the healthiest choices.
As some have said elsewhere (just saying I don’t take credit for this), a lot of times when you are done wrong it is helpful and important to feel heard. MSB admin, Gany and all, not only didn’t listen but made it clear they didn’t want to or feel it necessary.
This isn’t a ‘protest’ board, and anyone who buys into that stigma is being dumb. A large chunk of people were shut out of a forum. It makes all the sense in the world they would just then find another place to do the thing they were doing all along.
If people have feelings they need to air about what happened, I say that’s valid. I’d be disappointed if it were ever the main focus of all discussion here, but it ain’t.
