Numetal/Retromux
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@Cygnus You made a Mary Sue pc, that promptly Mary Sued all over the entire sphere about super awesome you were. You alienated 90% of the sphere with your entrance at Court where you announced you were with the wolves over the Vamps. Then wanted a seat on the Primogen Council. I don’t know what went on behind the scenes, but as Chaos lets the players handle how things in the sphere goes? Your pc was /never/ going to sit on that Council. The Council would have all gotten up and walked out if your pc had walked in. No Kindred Council is going to talk openly in front of a self-professed spy.
You like to repeatedly chest thump about the Gangrel having to fight for the seat. That’s if that’s what the Clan wants to do. You were the only one that wanted to do that. Until you didn’t? And gave your ‘approval’ for someone else to take the seat that you couldn’t have anyways. It was them or the seat sat empty.
Add to that you did everything you could to make every Court, a time that was set aside to loop players in on plot and get people into groups so they could participate, about /your pc/ with repeated temper tantrums that we all had to sit through for HOURS. You want to point your fingers at a few select people for being big mean to you, but I can promise you, there was no love lost when you were finally gone. We actually got to get back to doing real story and plot again and not “What nonsense is Vincent going to make us sit through this time.”
Oh, and in case it needs to be said, I’m none of the people you’ve bitched about so far. So no, they weren’t the only ones done with you.
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hey hey where’s the dog dick dude now to espouse the wonders of PVP games and how they never get problematic OOC???
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So is the new thing in the hobby: I should be pardoned for my toxic behavior because I pointed out other toxic behavior on the same game?
That’s what I’m getting from this recent round of stuff.
Yikes all around if so.
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
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I particularly enjoyed the “cool” PRP they wanted to run was based entirely around their Mary Sue character to further show off how bad ass and needed they were.
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AITAH? Nah, fam. ESH.
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@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
with your entrance at Court where you announced you were with the wolves over the Vamps.
This isn’t what happened, I said neither repeatedly and I told people what I was so that I was not hiding things. Mentioned this in my post earlier. Not my fault people didn’t read poses on that game, and you are continuing to purposely misread what I post here. You also mentioned I was a self-professed spy, but that is bullshit and you know it. A Brujah sex pest who gets repeated strikes for OOC metagaming and a ban calling me a spy? That is not me professing anything. My character was not a spy and never was.
@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
Then wanted a seat on the Primogen Council.
Chaos asked me to take over the position during CG because he mistakenly thought Samuel was inactive. I pushed for it. No I didn’t care what other Clans said about it, and I wasn’t particularly nice about it on an IC level. So what? I was always polite OOC and tried to put down a clear separation between me as a player and me as a character, but that was not returned to me by the cool girls club.
It’s vampire, and your opinion about what Vampire should be is not shared by everyone despite how you seem to like to dictate other people’s RP. Do you think Primogen are decided by the other Primogen now too?
@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
You like to repeatedly chest thump about the Gangrel having to fight for the seat. That’s if that’s what the Clan wants to do.
That’s what the Clan does. It’s not even necessarily a physical fight, it could be a game of knowledge, wits, connections, etc. The problem is, everyone had something to say about it but the Gangrel themselves. When I posted, the person who continuously harassed me about it was a Brujah and their 1 sentence pose clique. Not particularly engaging, thematic, or fair that a person who is known for their bad behavior decided they didn’t like my character could say things in channel like, ‘I’m not a kinfolk, I don’t care what the STs say’. They don’t get to pick who leads a Clan that isn’t theirs, and should absolutely not have a say in it one way or the other. So I ignored it, for good reason.
@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
Your pc was /never/ going to sit on that Council. The Council would have all gotten up and walked out if your pc had walked in.
This was because it was a popularity contest in a shitty clique. In reality, a Primogen takes the seat because they’re strong enough to do so. It has zero to do with other Primogen who say they didn’t like it and wanted no conflict bar RP. I also decided to stop trying and back away from the role IC because it was so stupid and frustrating to deal with the OOC harassment from Eddie and his TS clique, even though Chaos repeatedly told me to go for it in DMs. I guess the whole background effect of a staffer pushing me to do this, which I proved with actual screenshots, is lost on you.
@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
every Court, a time that was set aside to loop players in on plot and get people into groups so they could participate,
You mean where Chaos would bring in an NPC and roast people like in Mean Girls? Because that’s were the courts were. Literally an NPC harpy yelling at PCs with nothing particularly interesting about it. I had so many pages from people who told me that they were glad I was there because they were falling asleep during them, but to each their own. Some people like RPing as if they were in high school, some people don’t.
@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
We actually got to get back to doing real story and plot again
LOL.
@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
Chaos lets the players handle how things in the sphere goes
OMEGALOL. That’s why when me and the banu haqim alastor killed a bunch of SAD officers, Chaos showed up with a teleport as his Prince PC. magically knowing everything that happened, just knew where we were, what was going on, and proceeded to then tell me in DMs what I posted earlier. Braindead take
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@MisterBoring I’m not making any excuses for myself. I put what -actually happened- out there, with actual receipts unlike Sephiroth, and people can make up their own minds. I posted the actual truth of the situation, because Sephiroth/Giancarlo was flat out lying about it. Obviously shit was tense and I’m not perfect–after months of harassment, who would be? I included everything because reality is important.
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@bear_necessities RetroMUX isn’t a PVP game. You aren’t allowed to PVP other players, or at least HIGHLY discouraged from doing so. This is an example of the toxicity that happens in a non-PVP game–people say and do whatever they want without recourse, and RP often devolves into self-deprecating cliques that die out due to the sheer toxicity of the space.
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@catzilla For sure, I’m definitely a gangrel kinfolk IRL. I don’t think Mary Sue means what ya’ll think it means. Plots are allowed to be weird and fantastical. It’s a game about vampires and werewolves and mages, and some players like exploring that. I wanted to turn my character into an NPC and then kill him off, sue me I guess?
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@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:
Obviously shit was tense and I’m not perfect–after months of harassment, who would be?
Did you make the character before or after the harassment?
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
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@MisterBoring Why is that relevant unless you’re trying to dictate what kind of character I make for me? What gives you or anyone else but the staff who approved it a right to do that?
This is exactly the reason why RetroMUX is shit, by the way. Players and even most staff like to dictate how and with whom you RP, and then exclude people who don’t fall in line.
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@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:
Why is that relevant unless you’re trying to dictate what kind of character I make for me?
It’s relevant because I want to know if you made the toxic mistakes before they took toxic actions against you.
I could care less if you want to play Thumbelina, Hyperprincess of the the Goth-Woods or whatever.
Why are you attacking me as though I were staff at Retro?
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@MisterBoring I don’t know who you are, and I’m not attacking you. Just stating that, unless you think me making a vampire kinfolk is toxic–which is dictating my RP–I’m not sure how it’s relevant when I made the character.
The OOC/IC toxicity happened right away during my first scene when I ‘shifted’ in court to show what I was, because my character wasn’t the type to lie or hide things. I wasn’t toxic OOC in that game once, and although my character was contentious IC, even IC toxic is a bit of a stretch. This was my first and last character on that game.
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@MisterBoring At the end, things did get tense. I DM’d Chaos about my frustration which I linked earlier, but DMing him about how I was feeling after months of harassment is not my definition of toxic. Maybe it’s toxic that I give him shit in these posts about not reading the books–what Vampire TL doesn’t do that? Maybe it’s toxic that I’m posting here, moreso after being lied about by Sephiroth here on these boards. But what about my character was OOC toxic? Genuinely curious, as I was always trying my best to separate IC/OOC and play nice there OOC despite the harassment.
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Certainly one of the shittier things in this hobby is a habit of blaming players for having ‘bad’ PCs while ignoring the fact that somebody approved them.
"This is Liberty Hall; you can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard!"
– A. Bertram Chandler -
@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:
It’s vampire, and your opinion about what Vampire should be is not shared by everyone despite how you seem to like to dictate other people’s RP.
Reading Comprehension is fun:
@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
Oh, and in case it needs to be said, I’m none of the people you’ve bitched about so far. So no, they weren’t the only ones done with you.
For those in the back. I’m not Eddie, I’m not talking about Eddie and I have no interest in talking about your issues with him. This is about you, being in a glass house, trying to throw stones.
You also seem to be blatantly trying to skate over the fact that it isn’t a matter of the other Primogen picking you or not. None of them would work with you. You being in that seat? Would have literally been Vincent sabotaging his own Clan for a round of trying to stick it to the man. Unfortunately, that was in fact your introduction, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. The moment you walked in with your super special snowflake/kinfolk/vampire everyone was immediately done. Your continued blatant and open disrespect for the Prince piddled on all the rules and status you then claimed you wanted a say in. No one would work with Vincent, period. He was status rot from that point forward. That fact seems lost on /you/.
And yes, please do quote your escapades with the Assamite that ended up being site banned for shit behavior. Because that makes you look good when that’s your soap box.
Since it seems to be you that’s confused on a Mary Sue as well:
*A Mary Sue is a fictional character who is unrealistically perfect, often possessing exceptional abilities and lacking significant flaws. These characters can overcome any obstacle with ease, making them seem implausible and unrelatable.
Typically, Mary Sues are central to their stories, with plots often bending around their needs and desires. The term is used to critique characters who disrupt the balance of a narrative by being overly idealized and not facing meaningful challenges.*
Pretty clear there I think.
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@Gashlycrumb Not ignoring that fact at all, and I agree. Fortunately, the staffer he worked with on the concept is no longer staff. And while I would have pulled the character, Chaos chose to try and work with him instead. We can see what that got him.
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@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
Typically, Mary Sues are central to their stories, with plots often bending around their needs and desires. The term is used to critique characters who disrupt the balance of a narrative by being overly idealized and not facing meaningful challenges.
So a character I purposely nerfed by being on the fence is not having a meaningful challenge… who was literally cursed and most of his sheet was not beneficial to him at all in either sphere… sure
Also, Mary Sues are commonly referred to as the characters created by female authors who are adding an overly idealized self-insertion. Context matters.
@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
None of them would work with you.
I didn’t want them to. I wanted to work for my Clan and represent them. I specifically didn’t want a buddy buddy relationship with the other Primogen, I wanted to stand up for my Clan because they were largely treated like shit in that sphere. Think it sabotage if you want, but if you’re definition of sabotage is making the other Primogen not like Gangrel, that was never on my radar. The Clan didn’t even have Domain, and the Primogen Samuel thought our Domain was the territory of the Werewolves. It was not. That was the first thing I sorted out after I arrived. So yeah, befriending or working with other Clans didn’t matter to me. Either they liked me or they didn’t, that kind of popularity contest is anathema to me anyway.
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@Cygnus Just because a Clan selects a Primogen with their own methods, it doesn’t mean the Prince is required to accept them, nor does it stop the Prince from appointing their own if they want. Also, by 1995 (which is when Retro is set if the wiki is correct) Xaviar was already looking at the door leading up to when the Gangrel straight up just leave the Camarilla after the whole Eye of Hazimel incident. (End WoD Nerd Nonsense)
So here’s what I see:
- Staff didn’t recognize how disruptive your concept was going to be to the other players OOCly. They should have caught that when you had such a bad time introducing yourself and shifting and they didn’t, and so the initial reaction of the other players isn’t on you.
- You should not have been the target of that level of harassment from Eddie. One bad situation doesn’t justify a second.
- You are correct on your nitpick about Mary Sues being female. Everyone else in the thread, please use the proper terminology of “Gary Stu” going forward.
- Really, looking at your character idea, it’s on both you and the staffer that approved you to go “We can do this by the rules, but should we really be doing this?” And it seems like neither of you did. Hopefully you have changed since then.
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
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@Gashlycrumb Looking back, maybe it shouldn’t have been approved. And not because of the concept, but because people have been playing this game for thirty years and get mad when anything outside the norm is introduced. It’s probably impossible to get around this, sadly.
@Wyrmsign said in Numetal/Retromux:
I would have pulled the character,
Right, just pull the character someone made, cool way to resolve things. If you are who I think you are, you essentially did this anyway by changing my approved sheet without telling me, and paging me that you didn’t care who approved me, I was -never- going to get level 1 gifts despite my five dot merits I bought and full list of flaws related to it. Apparently, level 1 gifts are gamebreaking.
This is why I pitched the plot to retire my character, by the way. Because getting your sheet changed and triple nerfed for no reason was another example of getting egregiously dicked over for choosing to do something different.
