Numetal/Retromux
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@InkyTheGhost said in Numetal/Retromux:
I’d hate to bring things back around to the negative, so I’m going to avoid any kind of personal attack in this post as best I can. I think this forum has done a pretty good job pulling apart Joe/Vincent’s arguments already, save one. And I think it is one that needs to be responded to.
Blossom’s player is not the creepy stalker. She is kind, extremely loyal, unafraid to speak her mind, and one of the best writers I’ve RP’d with in decades of playing on MU*s. She will always stand up for her friends, and that includes the times beyond counting in which she stood up to me on behalf of Joe/Vincent. I wish he had better earned such loyalty, or prized it more highly.
I’ve had, lets call it center court (rather than front row) seats for most of the events that Vincent has described in his unwarranted attack on a player that had nothing to do with his situation turning to shit on Retro. His version of them bares very little resemblance to the truth as I perceived it at the time, nor as I recollect it now. I strongly suspect that the version of events posted here is similar to most of his diatribes against his perceived enemies on Retro: A small kernel of truth, cherry picked from hours, days, months, or years of conversations; which he feels he can use to make someone look bad. In almost every example though, if you look at the actual “receipts” without the context Vincent/Joe provides, what you see is just someone trying to be nice to the guy.
Can Joe/Vincent provide more of these out of context statements? Probably. We all say things to our friends in private DMs that might make us look bad if taken entirely out of context.Finally, I would like to echo previous sentiment that if there -are- staff orgies on Retro, I’m very sad I have never been invited to them. If there were orgies amongst the Giovanni, big time same. (Though I suspect both were just figments of someone’s imagination.)
I’m Inky, I staff Changeling and Wraith on Retro. Anyone who would like to play either is welcome to app in. I can’t promise you orgies, but I can promise I won’t hate on your concept out of hand, whether it is a special snowflake or Johnny Card Board Cut Out.
Regarding the cherry-picking aspect, in general, I’ve found that in real life and on forums like this, everyone is an unreliable narrator when it comes to telling their own story, and everyone tends to be the hero of their own story.
For the game itself, my own experience has varied. You are forced to deal with a player/character like Eddie in every sphere in some kind of role that means you have to deal with the baggage they bring, for good or bad. Like most games, there is a core group of characters/players that sucks all the oxygen out of the room for other players/take up all the time staff has/do everything without thought for other players. All the usual tropes we’re used to in these games as discussed here, good things and bad things.
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@xCroaker said in Numetal/Retromux:
You are forced to deal with a player/character like Eddie
Could he potentially have alts in all of the spheres?
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
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@InkyTheGhost said in Numetal/Retromux:
Blossom’s player is not the creepy stalker. She is kind, extremely loyal, unafraid to speak her mind, and one of the best writers I’ve RP’d with in decades of playing on MU*s. She will always stand up for her friends,
None of those things are mutually exclusive with “creepy stalker.”
If we’re gonna play character-witness, well.
I really enjoyed Joe, and thought that he was a fun character, and more importantly, a fun player who wanted to share the fun. Friendly, pleasant to deal with OOC, entertaining RP, effort to draw others in. 10/10 would RP again.
It sounds to me like @Cygnus kinda screwed the pooch with this particular character. But that’s just this character and game, and it also sounds like some mitigating circumstances, so, no real change in that opinion.
Blossom is charismatic, but for me, not so much the other stuff.
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@dvoraen said in Numetal/Retromux:
Um, ACKSHUALLY, this is Rough & Rowdy, so if anything I’d say it’s “Soft & Serious.”
Mostly because I couldn’t think of how to do an inverse to “Hog Pit.”
“Soft & Serious” sounds like the kind of romance novel I’d want to read, can someone get on that?
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@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:
@xCroaker said in Numetal/Retromux:
You are forced to deal with a player/character like Eddie
Could he potentially have alts in all of the spheres?
Yes.
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@Juniper said in Numetal/Retromux:
@dvoraen said in Numetal/Retromux:
Um, ACKSHUALLY, this is Rough & Rowdy, so if anything I’d say it’s “Soft & Serious.”
Mostly because I couldn’t think of how to do an inverse to “Hog Pit.”
“Soft & Serious” sounds like the kind of romance novel I’d want to read, can someone get on that?
Or the name of an L&L MU*.
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@Juniper said in Numetal/Retromux:
@dvoraen said in Numetal/Retromux:
Um, ACKSHUALLY, this is Rough & Rowdy, so if anything I’d say it’s “Soft & Serious.”
Mostly because I couldn’t think of how to do an inverse to “Hog Pit.”
“Soft & Serious” sounds like the kind of romance novel I’d want to read, can someone get on that?
Featuring the Muppets and a very confused Fabio.
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@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:
@xCroaker said in Numetal/Retromux:
You are forced to deal with a player/character like Eddie
Could he potentially have alts in all of the spheres?
They did, but well, not anymore. Player was fully banned today it seems.
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I wonder if any WoD MU ever has tried that simple fuckery-reducing measure of requiring alt-transparency?
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@Gashlycrumb I don’t know if any have in the past, but if I ever get the time to start a game in the future, I’m going to require full alt transparency if I do a multi-sphere game. If I do a single sphere game, which I’m heavily leaning towards, there will be a no alts policy. One sphere, one character. You want a new character, retire your existing one.
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IMO the ballsiest and best thing a game can do for community health is to ban alts. I’ll die on that hill.
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@Juniper Do you think that helps compared to just alt transparency? (I really mean it alt-transparency, the name of every PC you play or have played on that MU is in your +finger, no exceptions.)
Heh. Might be that this, not the WoD vs not-WoD, is the thing we want to conduct a poorly controlled study about to see how it coorelates with fuckery.
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@Juniper I’d say that keeping a game focused narrowly enough that alts aren’t encouraged would probably do. You’d have the health of not having to look over your shoulder to see if Bob is the Schmidt is Kalvin, while also not having stuff stupidly spread out and inconsistently applied.
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@Pavel Where it doesn’t really make sense to have an alt because the focus of the story would make alt-overlap likely is exactly where bad actors like to put their secret alts.
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@Gashlycrumb That’s why I didn’t say “story” I said “game.” Bad actors are going to break the ‘no alts’ rule, and they’re going to break the ‘no hiding your alts’ rule. If the game is narrow enough in focus, your staff is going to be right there to see fuckery and stop it.
By narrow focus, I mean one sphere with population limits in accordance with how many active staff you’ve got.
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@Pavel Most likely players will see it before staff regardless. If there’s a ‘no alts’ rule OR a ‘no hiding your alts’ rule, players will see it and actually say something.
You can’t narrow the game enough that you can just expect those rules to be followed naturally without making them rules, though. Unless your population limit is such that it’s a lot more ‘Online TT’ than ‘MU.’
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@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:
You can’t narrow the game enough that you can just expect those rules to be followed naturally without making them rules, though
No, I know this. But you also can’t just make it a rule and expect the bad guy to follow it.
But I’m also talking, as Juniper was, about community health, not just alt transparency. I believe that one can greatly reduce the level of fuckass-stupidity we’ve seen (or had described to us) in this thread by scaling things down.
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@Pavel You have to enforce it, yes.
"This is Liberty Hall; you can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard!"
– A. Bertram Chandler -
@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:
@Juniper Do you think that helps compared to just alt transparency? (I really mean it alt-transparency, the name of every PC you play or have played on that MU is in your +finger, no exceptions.)
Yea.
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People are busy and can’t be online 24/7. Splitting time between characters means that they are online even less 24/7. Gameplay slows to a crawl because the people you are waiting on have plots on 4 other characters to get through or simply aren’t willing to admit they’ve lost interest in half their characters. Leaders don’t lead because they are on their alts.
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Making judgements on whether something is metagaming or a conflict of interest between alts is complicated. It takes up gamerunner time. You don’t have to spend time and energy on this if there are no alts.
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Even if you determine no abuse occurred, the perception that abuse occurred is almost as bad. It stresses the fuck out of players. Good luck convincing them that thing you cleared wasn’t favouritism.
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I have seen people plant an alt in every organisation just to keep tabs on what is happening and it gives an advantage even if they are careful not to blatantly act on it. I have seen people plant multiple alts in the SAME organisation to sway opinions in the direction they want. IMO no matter where the alts are distributed, it gives an unfair advantage.
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If a player wants to avoid another player, it’s way easier if everyone only has one character and isn’t spread across the whole game.
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Limiting to one character results in a more equitable distribution of roles in plots & leadership positions.
Also I fully admit I am lazy and don’t want to process and familiarise myself with 3x the quantity of half-baked characters. I feel more willing to give people my full attention when I know they are giving me theirs.
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@Juniper all excellent points
