The SA In Games Thread (Good Luck)
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@Kestrel I would suggest not tagging people into this thread given the subject matter.
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There should be limits, and one that was put forward earlier in this cross-thread debate (tag removed) is definitely a good start.
I’ll start, as I always apparently need to when this conversation comes up, by reminding all that child rape is bad and I think any game with child rape in it should be fired directly into the sun along with anyone who plays on them.
That said. There is no authority that can stop people from making games of such nature, nor any body that can stop people from playing them. So while I personally may want to put such people in very small boxes buried deep underground, I can’t. So instead, I wash my hands and say “keep them over there, away from me.” Because there’s nothing else I can do.
That is my understanding of anyone here who says the same or similar. We’re not advocates—though I would argue that if any game were advertised here with such concepts then we would be contributors—but there’s very little benefit to gnashing teeth and hand-wringing over it, so we let it go. It’s not being blase or expressing ‘unbridled sexual permissiveness’; it’s impotence.
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I’m just sort of confused, what’s the end game here in a game that enables this? Your character becomes a pariah and known as the person who rapes people and is now on the short-list for an early retirement/character death?
A couple of quick points: your reply presumes that allowing the subject means that the only way you would encounter it is with PCs as perpetuators. From what I have seen, though, even PCs as victims – on-cam or off – is not allowed. Games no longer tell these stories at all.
Just looking to media, the category of redeemed rapist is really not a well explored space because no one is interested in them being redeemed. Redeemed murderer? Accidentally killed someone and now you’re the town pariah? Murdered your arch enemy in cold blood and now are trying to cover the tracks? This is a lot more interesting for all characters involved.
There’s something to be said about the fact that we are more comfy with killing someone. This might not be the best venue for that, but there is something to be said. I will grant that we probably can’t actually speak to any victims of murder. We aren’t RPing with those people every day, while every day we are RPing with victims of SA. That does make a difference. I won’t pretend it doesn’t.
But. There’s a tension there.
she/they
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There’s something to be said about the fact that we are more comfy with killing someone.
I don’t have the time to do an in-depth literature review on the subject, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there is something of an evolutionary bias (eta: either social evolution or genetic) that influenced our sociological development. I can, for instance, easily imagine a scenario in which my killing someone is the correct moral, ethical, and legal choice.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
@Faraday said:
Pavel is probably right
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There’s something to be said about the fact that we are more comfy with killing someone.
I don’t have the time to do an in-depth literature review on the subject, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there is something of an evolutionary bias (eta: either social evolution or genetic) that influenced our sociological development. I can, for instance, easily imagine a scenario in which my killing someone is the correct moral, ethical, and legal choice.
Sorry, you’ve just tripped one of my special interests.
The Evolution of Desire, by David M. Buss, Chapter 6: Staying Together
Free to listen to as an audiobook with Spotify Premium
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@Tez said:
There’s something to be said about the fact that we are more comfy with killing someone. This might not be the best venue for that, but there is something to be said.I’m not unsympathetic to the view that violence in media gets a pass and sex in media doesn’t, at least in American media. I agree with this broadly speaking.
But.
I think there’s a mischaracterization here of how at least some games, including ones I’ve been a part of, draft rules around this and Social Contract type language. It’s not like rape RP is always put in its own box as the only thing anyone cares about. Sometimes it is but it’s often not. These have also included broad language on what kind of violence is and isn’t going to be involved in plots, how physical and psychological torture is handled, etc. I’ve seen red/yellow/green lights players list on their character pages becoming more common and like…some of it’s sex, some of it’s torture, some of it’s spiders.
This thread’s about sexual assault, though, so people are talking specifically about rules around SA content.
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@Tez said:
There’s something to be said about the fact that we are more comfy with killing someone. This might not be the best venue for that, but there is something to be said.I think there’s a mischaracterization here of how at least some games, including ones I’ve been a part of, draft rules around this and Social Contract type language. It’s not like rape RP is always put in its own box as the only thing anyone cares about. Sometimes it is but it’s often not. These have also included broad language on what kind of violence is and isn’t going to be involved in plots, how physical and psychological torture is handled, etc. I’ve seen red/yellow/green lights players list on their character pages becoming more common and like…some of it’s sex, some of it’s torture, some of it’s spiders.
I think the social contracts are a great way to frame out what is okay and what isn’t: PC vs NPC, on-cam vs off-cam, backgrounds or worlds or stories. I love them. I think they are a great tool. And you’re right! Games definitely break down violence in the same way.
But I was specifically addressing the point made in the post rather than social contracts and the way games break down violence and how they engage with it. I didn’t mean to characterize or speak to any game with a social contract addressing that. I was just narrowly addressing the post. Just to be clear.
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@Tez
That’s fair. This thread is, shall we say, far-reaching in what people are talking about in any given post. I’m doing my best not to engage with the broad sociological stuff, honestly, I just don’t think this is a venue where I’m going to have a conversation about it in ways that I’m going to find worthwhile, even if I might be able to do that with individual posters one-to-one. I’ve tried to keep my own thoughts on this subject to what own experiences and why I approach this content like I do in spaces I have some power over. I do think that’s important even if I don’t agree with how every game or player handles it. -
This thread is, shall we say, far-reaching in what people are talking about in any given post.
I can barely keep tense correct in my poses, you expect me to keep scale correct in my forum posts? Unreasonable!
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
@Faraday said:
Pavel is probably right
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@Pavel
LOL I didn’t mean to get judgey about anyone’s scale. Obviously some people are getting something out of it and I leave them be.I wanna be specific about the scope of my own responses, though. This is a topic I’m interested in and I think there’s been good discussion in places.
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My opinion on this is pretty simple: I don’t see a need for sex in my RP (I much prefer stories about solving mysteries, fighting bad guys, and disassembling corrupt social structures), so I definitely don’t see a need for SA in any of it.
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