Don’t forget we moved!
https://brandmu.day/
Mod Voice
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I very much dislike the idea of a separate mod account. Even with attaching a name, it is false separation and I feel it very easily dilutes accountability.
This is a good point, but at the same time, I worry the insistence on labeling people as mods will subtly ostracize the mods and divorce their interests from users’ as they become the Them to our Us. I’m not sure how accommodate your concern and mine, though. Perhaps instead of dedicated mods, it should be a temporary, rotating position we all take our turns at so we all live in both worlds?
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@GF Honestly, I don’t see that happening much in this particular community. The users are (as we’ve seen) not likely to put mods on a pedestal or treat them much different. Pre-this current blowup, mods weren’t treated any differently, and I think it was just the personalities involved that had it blow up. None of the current administrators insist on any sort of ‘authority’ - when we act, we’ll tell you why, and take responsibility for it without demanding ORDER AND RESPECT.
Aside from the respect I’d like as just a person, of course!
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Two thoughts:
- As long as the community has trust in the mods, any decision they make about this will work as long as it’s made with thoughtfulness and intention.
- No mods should ever be making jokes about banning, locking threads, or any other mod power. Even when not in “mod voice”.
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@GF Honestly, I don’t see that happening much in this particular community. The users are (as we’ve seen) not likely to put mods on a pedestal or treat them much different.
Rather, I think we have an anti-authoritarian streak strong enough that instead of idolizing mods, we’d be more likely to treat them with suspicion or even hostility. Don’t forget, the comment that prompted mine is one that seemed to be distrustful that if a mod’s name isn’t attached to everything they do, then they will be tempted to deceive and abuse.
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Don’t forget, the comment that prompted mine is one that seemed to be distrustful that if a mod’s name isn’t attached to everything they do, then they will be tempted to deceive and abuse.
In our group chat thing, I raised a similar issue. When we’re setting policy or making decisions like this, I tend to err on the side of “okay, not us obviously, but what about someone else that’s brought on later?” i.e. How is someone else going to try and break this?
ETA: And this is partly why we’re asking for your input. The main reason being is that we serve the community, not the other way around, but additionally, it’s just a fact that you trust us for now, but new people may come and old may go, or the novelty of the new forum will wear off and we’ll lose our lustre or something.
So setting standards and policies now is a step toward not needing to blindly trust mods/admin so much.
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@Pavel I think the site’s owner should be quick to remove such a person from power, not necessarily permanently. Simply removing their power until a public conversation can be had and an agreement reached about the severity of their offense, which might be determined to be no big deal and worth reinstating them, would be a great show of good faith from the bosses.
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I think the site’s owner should be quick to remove such a person from power, not necessarily permanently.
That’s the ideal.
But we know that’s not a guarantee. The more we put down into actual words and doctrine, as it were, the better.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
BE AN ADULT -
@Pavel this is true. But fire anyone who ruleslawyers.
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Hello, I have returned with a Brand New Opinion, and it is:
Don’t borrow trouble.
Debates around “Mod Voice” on MSB were not actually a common occurrence. The instances I recall tended to center around two mods who at least some part of the community did not feel were a fit for a moderation position because of the way they tended to engage in the board just as users. It meant that the delineation was not as clear because they already had a habit of being in the midst of debates, and because they didn’t really make it clear when they were speaking as mods.
I think this is just – a tonal thing. Treat the moderation end of things with Serious Voice. In my experience, it actually shouldn’t be difficult to tell the difference if there’s any real effort to just – make it apparent.
I dunno. I agree with just not joking about the mod end of things – banning, locking threads, etc. – with the general understanding that lots of users may not know you and your overall joking style. Just joke about other things, use a serious voice when you’re actually forced to moderate, and I think mostly it’ll be fine.
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Debates around “Mod Voice” on MSB were not actually a common occurrence.
Not publicly, but it had been a personal concern of mine for a while. This is why I brought it up to the others when we started here.
Tone’s hard to read in text, especially if you’re new or just not familiar with the individuals involved. So a clear delineation between user and moderator talk is important, to my mind.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
BE AN ADULT -
Debates around “Mod Voice” on MSB were not actually a common occurrence.
Not publicly, but it had been a personal concern of mine for a while. This is why I brought it up to the others when we started here.
Tone’s hard to read in text, especially if you’re new or just not familiar with the individuals involved. So a clear delineation between user and moderator talk is important, to my mind.
I think, sadly, the answer might be what Glitch intimated towards. That admins/mods/supreme basilisks/whatever will have to be careful and understand just exactly that. Or err on the side of not posting rather than posting if they feel their engagement would be chilling/misconstrued.
I do think it is a fair point, that even with a single log in there is power in a title attached to a name. That’s human nature.
When someone shows you who they are, over and over again? Believe them.
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Or err on the side of not posting rather than posting if they feel their engagement would be chilling/misconstrued.
Alas, this is where I fundamentally disagree. I am a member of this community first, an arbiter or whatever second. I plan to engage with this community as I always have, and rely on the rest of the admin/mod team to make judgement calls of situations I’m directly involved in.
That said, us (that is to say the admin/mods) acting like a dick just to act like a dick won’t be tolerated. Making admin/mod calls on debates/arguments/whatever that we’re actively participating in won’t be tolerated.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
BE AN ADULT -
Alas, this is where I fundamentally disagree. I am a member of this community first, an arbiter or whatever second. I plan to engage with this community as I always have, and rely on the rest of the admin/mod team to make judgement calls of situations I’m directly involved in.
That said, us (that is to say the admin/mods) acting like a dick just to act like a dick won’t be tolerated. Making admin/mod calls on debates/arguments/whatever that we’re actively participating in won’t be tolerated.
I just wanna back Pavel up here. We’ve been talking about all of this feedback and thinking about the community you guys are asking for. Right now we are leaning toward NO MOD VOICE and NO MOD ACCOUNT and just–
Being people.
Who act like normal people and use their serious voices when they need to use their serious voices.
One of the things we’ve talked about a lot – haha, just kidding; I’m the community lurker. One of the things OTHER PEOPLE have talked about in threads is that staff on games are people too. And mods on boards are people too. I wouldn’t expect someone to not get engaged in VIGOROUS DEBATE just because they are a mod.
I do, absolutely, expect that someone doesn’t switch hats mid-debate, though. Like Pavel says: don’t make admin calls where you are already involved. That’s bad behavior and has no place here.
WE WILL FORMALIZE SOMETHING, that said, and are still listening to feedback. PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO OUR F.U.C.K.E.R. or P.E.N.I.S. or whatever questionable acronym we decide on.
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@Pavel Sorry I should have been clearer - not engaging if you can’t make yourself (or the border between yourself and the admin role) clear. If you say something and it looks like ‘mod voice’, you don’t want it to be and can’t think how to reword it, I think I’d still stick with not posting it.
It is, as many of the things in this thread, an edge case.
When someone shows you who they are, over and over again? Believe them.
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@Pavel Sorry I should have been clearer - not engaging if you can’t make yourself (or the border between yourself and the admin role) clear. If you say something and it looks like ‘mod voice’, you don’t want it to be and can’t think how to reword it, I think I’d still stick with not posting it.
It is, as many of the things in this thread, an edge case.
Oh, for sure. This is why I advocate on the side of outright stating “this bit of text is actually an admin speaking as an admin.” If I add
ADMIN: Okay, knock it off.
It’s pretty unambiguous that I’m speaking “officially.”
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
BE AN ADULT -
@Pavel That is my preference, because it lacks ambiguity. And it looks lame and sure, but. Yeah. Anyway, I trust admin to make these choices and be responsible, and consider what the community has spoken about.
And when I don’t trust the admin, I’ll swear very Britishly.
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@Pavel I don’t believe your previous engagement with the community involved misplaced jokes about active moderation on your part. That didn’t become a thing until you actually had mod powers. Which means you are aware of the difference in your position.
Ignoring that is to suggest your ability to say whatever you want is more important than maintaining any sort of awareness of authority implicitly held.
You seem to have reined in some of that, but for someone so quick to have employed moderation tools in the beginning days, I think you might benefit the most from reconsidering your position on how you speak and act as a mod, and not just when employing your “mod” voice.
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ONCE UPON A TIME, when I staffed an X-Men game, I really hated when people would use their staff bits to talk on channel. I liked to think that if people just used their character bits, then people wouldn’t think that someone was posting with Extra Authority behind what they said.
I realize that was naive, and probably the same impulse that made me lean toward having a separate account for admin calls.
We will always have the little tags next to our name that say [Administrator]. People will always see that when we talk. It is impossible to get away from that. There will always be a weight of ‘This is a Mod’ even without the weight of their being ‘MOD: This is my Mod Voice’.
IDK. MOD VOICE or no mod voice, it’s still a mod’s voice.
she/they
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@Tez I think those are two slightly different (but not unconnected) things, and one can mitigate one by being clear about the other. Thankfully I don’t need to handle it, I can just opine on what comes like a a sunbathing otter with opinions and a top hat.
