@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:

The merit ‘Supernatural Kinfolk’ means that the developers thought different.

The Supernatural Kinfolk means that the devs gave players toys, a niche connector merit, not a blank check. You’re just quote-mining mechanics. The fact that your character was a vampire kinfolk wasn’t the issue in the first place, just the first domino in the big ass soup of hilarity.

Also, damn, you are triggered as fuck. Maybe go on a walk or something and think about how any of that word vomit you just posted justifies continuous OOC harassment for months on end,

“You’re triggered” is just a lazy ad hominem / tone-policing move that tells me you can’t refute my points so you’re attacking my delivery of them.

and the platforming/defense of problematic sex pests, staff favoritism, and all the other bad shit that has been revealed with receipts about this game. ‘Oh no, your character is a jerk, better make that the entire problem and ignore all the heinous shit staff did on this game!’ - you, basically

Bro, sex pests, staff favoritism, and all the whataboutism - even if/where true, is irrelevant to the fact that it’s hilarious that you walked into Elysium in wolf form like THIS IS WHO I REALLY AM INSIDE, BELLA

Like dude all that shit flinging about staff tomfuckery is a separate issue, I’m just over here saying it’s hilarious you can’t admit that your character was very like, Super Special and you did some shit that was absolutely unhinged ICly like … telling the truth in a game specifically centered around controlling the truth is FUCKING FUNNY

@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:

how is my making a gangrel kinfolk character even slightly equivalent on the toxicity scale with all the shit I’ve proved about this game? I came with receipts too, and people are just saying shit about me that didn’t happen without a receipt to be found. I posted the truth about the situation, including stuff about my character. Because I could really care less about what people think of my character. Some people like it, some people didn’t. Who cares?

What annoys me is that the majority of people here are ignoring the actual problematic shit to get mad about how people decide to have their fantasy fun time. It has true WORA genetics, but it’s the definition of strawman and not at all equivalent in terms of shittiness. Sorry, but I don’t see how the fact I had a couple rites and took a wolf form in court is equivalent to OOC, cross-character harassment that multiple people in this thread have pointed out about this game. NOT just me.

Both things can be true – that staff has made batshit and shitty decisions, and that you have made batshit and shitty decisions. The reason why I’m focusing on YOU is because you’re here. Chaos isn’t in here defending himself – he definitely should not have caleld you cute, obviously – and neither is Eddie. With Eddie, the matter seems to be addressed (whether or not to your satisfaction) because he got banned.

Meanwhile you’re here kicking around on the thread while deflecting and minimizing so people are responding to said deflection and minimizing. And I’m still just laughing at how your character literally ran around Elysium in wolf form and actually thought, “Well, they should know the truth about me,” in a game where the whole point is nobody should know the truth about you, because it’s the funniest part of the deflection and minimization picture. You seem to lack the self-awareness that maybe part of the equation leading to your expulsion is that you made some truly unhinged IC/OOC decisions.

Yeah, there’s no One True Way to play any TTRPG even if there’s several ways that will make the game devs have a fucking anyeurism, how you have fun is how you decide to have fun. But when you’re playing on a MUSH you do need to know how to read and fulfill the social contract, man, else you find yourself defending yourself all I’M SORRY, I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA all over again.

When you said you revealed yourself from the jump because “they’ll find out eventually” I can only imagine that it came off to the average player like ‘I know how these systems work, but I’m going to ignore them because I want my character to be Special and Transparent on my own schedule, fuck a lot of narrative consequences or a dramatic reveal that feels earned THERE ARE TWO WOLVES INSIDE ME. ONE WANTS TO SERVE GAIA AND THE OTHER WATNS TO DRINK BLOOD’. And even if that wasn’t your intent, that’s the inevitable impact. Secrecy, deception, and political maneuvering are central mechanics of Vampire, and when you just fursuit all over Elysium because they were going to find out about the furpiles eventually anyway, like, … I mean shit dude it’s not a relatable or reasonable first impression.

So then later the choice to icly be like “I choose Gaia”, also from the vampire perspective it’s like –

<hank hill>HHWAT?</hank hill>

What’s a Gaia (says Tommy Toreador IC)??? What do you mean you choose … an obscure goddess of a cult of monsters who kill us on sight? Like okay, I’ll accept Eddie was being an asshat, fair, but seriously there is but ONE reasonable reaction when your fellow Kindred is uncle-tomming for freakish hellbeasts, and that is “what the actual fuck is wrong with you???” and I still can’t get over how like straightfacedly you described the IC situation

Even if I were your buddy OOC, if I were playing Tommy Toreador IC, I’d have to be like “And you’re literally choosing the side of…nnnnnature? Over centuries-old Kindred law? Over the Masquerade? Over my beautifully curated social circle? MY OEUVRE!?!” and treat you like the unhinged crackhead you clearly must be ICly. And it’s just. Reading that was like those bodycam videos where the driver has plowed right through a building and is like WHAT’S THE PROBLEM I WAS JUST TRAVELING

@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:

@LeeRoyBatty I let his bullshit lies get to me

Wait, bullshit lies, where’s the lie?

Let me re-read this shit. He said Eddie being a sex pest has not been reported with proof. So far as I can tell, this is true. His banning was due to harrassment that was not sexual in nature AFAICT. It’s on their bbposts still, actually. That doesn’t mean that therefore Eddie is an angel, it just means that Sephiroth said Eddie isn’t a sex pest, he’s an asshole.

He then said Chaos and the rest of staff are not sex pests. Chaos calling you cute is definitely inappropriate, but I can’t say that that behavior rises to “sex pest” material, especially given that it’s all you presented, so I see no pattern. You do say “he deleted several of his weirder DMs” and that may be true, but you could also just be saying that. and Sephiroth can’t know what’s in your personal DM history with Chaos in order to lie about it so there’s no “lie” here of Sephiroth’s to get heated about.

He said that he’s not TSing. Personally I’m happy taking that at face value because it’s not a reasonable concern to maintain. I have neither the time, inclination, nor the methods to make sure that staffers are not fucking. Or if they must, at least fucking me and lavishing me with attention (in the missionary position under the auspices of holy matrimony for the procreation of children in God’s holy name, Jesus be praised)

He questioned whether you had receipts re: outing people as trans, said to his knowledge no transphobia has occurred…

And then he said “Also you smell bad therfore your argument is invalid” in so many words, but rather he said “I bet you’re Vincent” which you confirmed in spades

And then he said “Vincent was a Gangrel/kinfolk super special snowflake vampire”
which you confirmed

“complete with shifter rites”
which you confirmed

“that he got approved by utilizing a friend who was on staff that he regularly plays Dungeons and Dickheads with via discord.”
which you refuted so I’ll take you at face value that this was a lie

Then he said “Vincent has what we call Main Character Syndrome”
Which you have unsuccessfully argued against and I maintain is true

And then he goes and tells his lens on the exact same story you told (I had this kinfolk vampire who was accepted by neither side)

You also confirmed that staffers “stood up for you to let it continue to play out ICly” (Sephiroth’s phrasing) and given your play by play of how you presented yourself to the vampires, even without Eddie being a shitbag, Ray Charles could see how that was going to go from the ISS.

He claimed that you had a buddy introduce a special plot where you turn into a mortal and they shot it down, you seem to think that Golconda turns you into a mortal, it doesn’t. It just makes your beast go into remission TLDR. You still are undead/wyrm-tainted.

And then he said he refused to give you further special favors like “Extra XP to acquire more ridiculous powers, above what the templates called for”

So I mean, no, I don’t think you let Sephiroth’s “lies” get to you unless it REALLY GOT UNDER YOUR SKIN that the SPECIFIC DETAIL OF WHO APPROVED your clusterfuck of a character mattered enough to write a goddamn thesis. I still maintain Sephiroth cheapened his point by pointing out your own flawed actions, but don’t get it twisted. He ain’t lyin’. ESH, Reddit, ESH.

@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:

@LeeRoyBatty Literally who cares? What, do I need to play the same Toreador that’s been apped a thousand times, with an occult bookstore or a bar, who just social RPs all the time about nothing? I play games like this for interesting and unique stories.

By these terms, any character who isn’t a cookie cutter app is a Gary Stu. I didn’t self insert a self-dealized version of myself into this shit, which is my understanding of a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. Generally those are like romance authors who make main characters that are sad, lonely authors who also know kung fu without training, but just want a man/woman to love them, or whatever.

Hahaaha well obviously, you, dude, evidence is in bothering to reply with an army of strawmen like “OH SO BECAUSE I’M NOT PLAYING A COOKIE CUTTER TOREADOR I’M THE PROBLEM? I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA” - bro it’s not a dilemma between either “play a boring cookie-cutter character” or “play my unique snowflake” you can create a character which is both unique and balanced/respectful of the setting. Your character was sure as shit unique alright, but neither balanced nor respectful of the setting. I don’t mean mechanically balanced, I mean like, made with thought towards how your character was going to integrate into the themes of a VTM game.

Nobody said you can’t be creative. The critique is that your proprietary blend of Kinfolk + Gangrel + werewolf rites + Gifts is batshit nonsense that doesn’t belong in a Vampire game. That’s not ‘cookie cutter vs. unique,’ that’s just you trying to weld two incompatible splats together with a coathanger and a lighter and daring staff to say no.

Gary Stu doesn’t just mean ‘self-insert wish fulfillment’, it also means someone who warps the rules and narrative to make themselves The Specialest Special Boy. And if you still want to say NO I’M NOT A GARY STU BECAUSE TECHNICALLY THE DEFINITION I GOT FROM I’MRIGHT DOT COM SAYS THIS SHIT OVER HERE, it doesn’t change the fact that you leveraged the rules to make yourself The Specialest Special Boy. Pretty Unicorn Princess Palpatine trying to tape together a Kinfolk template + vampire template + werewolf powers and still argue it wasn’t special-pleading.

While it’s to a large extent on staff to recognize such an unplayable character cocnept on its face and give you guidance to tell you to play something else, and prior staff didn’t do that - that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a collaborative storytelling game where you share the spotlight and DON’T make yourself The Main Character Chosen One Pretty Unicorn Princess Palpatine Specialest Special Boy out of a general sense of social notdickery in a collaborative creative space because you can do this thing called ‘introspection’ and ‘self-awareness’ by doing things like maybe not fucking sitting around in elysium in wolf form???

Seriously who tf sits around in elysium in wolf form I’m fucking dying - that’s some peak “i’m not like other vampires” energy dude and you didn’t expect that to be reacted to???

Yeah, Gangrel can shift into animals but like - you don’t go padding into Elysium as a giant fuckin’ furry and flop down next to the Harpies like, “sup guys, don’t mind me, I’m just so unique and primal, I WANTED YOU TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT ME”. You also don’t go into elysium with a weapon in general - and you’re making your body into more of a weapon than it is, it’s boundary testing bullshit, like, it makes as much sense as showing up to Elysium with a fucking shotgun strapped to your chest adn being like WELLL YOU KNOW I JUST WANTED YOU TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT ME

@SleepyGrump While I am not a blind user I am familiar with programming with blind and V/I users in mind (for apps) and I do want to throw something down here.

Screen readers can be configured to ignore certain combinations of characters so that you don’t have to listen to, you know, “PLUS EQUALS PLUS EQUALS PLUS EQUALS” when you look at a room and the game is set up to have its room name format all
+=+=+=+=+=+=| The Big Dick Saloon | +=+=+=+=+=+=

But you still have to configure it to do that so getting used to a new MUSH theoretically would require you to make adjustments to add to the list of “repeating characters to ignore” (I’ve never spoken to a blind MUSH user, I am basing this off of my familiarity as an SWE making an app accessible).

Therefore, you may want to put an option available to your players to make a @nameformat or its equivalent simply be the name of the room you’re in.

There’s some commands that are nice to include for people:

• A command that lists out a specific stat, like “+stat strength” so we don’t have to listen to a whole shitload of entries.
• A command that only shows the latest comment on a +job so that you don’t have to tab through and/or listen to the whole fukken job.
• A command that lists out a specific sheet section in case you need to be reminded of something not as granular as a single stat but also don’t want to listen to the whole sheet.
• A flag or attribute to put on yourself that instructs the MUSH to be brief with its room descriptions. In Penn, this is terse:

  Flag:  TERSE  (players, things)

  When an object is set TERSE, it does not see the descriptions, or success and failure messages in rooms. This is a useful flag if you're on a slow connection or you're moving through a familiar area and don't want to see tons of text.

So that when you’re cruisin’, you don’t have to listen to a room description over and over. You can still see descriptions, they’re just not dropped in your lap when you navigate, whether that’s literally cruising the map, or navigating through the backscroll to re-listen. I don’t want to have to shift tab 5 billion times through the map exploration I did to catch up to something I want to re-read.

ETA -
You also want to steer clear of using color as your only means of conveying information. For example, think of a WHO list where there’s use of color to convey whether someone is approved, not approved, idle, or whatever. Find a secondary way to convey information that isn’t color-based.

You want to try to make sure your website is as accessible as possible as well. I honestly am certain my website is not accessible but if you’re interested I can rant at you about WCAG compliance.

At the bare minimum -

• Do not style your website in px, use rem, for fucking everything, so if somebody has to increase the text size through their browser (V/I doesn’t always mean "use a screen reader) the website scales proportionally.
• Make sure your colors in your website meet a contrast ratio requirement for the visually impaired and just people whose eyes aren’t what they used to be because 40 hit them like a freight train.

If it’s text to be read, the contrast ratio should be 4.5 to 1 or greater. If it’s an interactive element, like a checkbox, the contrast ratio should be 3 to 1 or greater.

The way you’d want to do this is by taking the CSS values you want to use over to a color contrast checker like WebAim.

But nobody knew or gave a shit dude so why did you even bother?
OH NO MY MUSH REPUTATION IS RUINED

Every game i join they’re going to remember that i was vincent because some obscure asshole on a game of pretend for adults who calls himself the ONE WINGED ANGEL wrote a waterfall of text most people probably didn’t even read

I better build a whole stage production to defend myself and confirm that I am this person

Next time just keep your eye on the prize and say “Who I am or am not is irrelevant to the point I’m making.” Sephiroth (cue music) didn’t do himself ANY favors by trying to discredit you because a valid statement is not invalidated by who happens to say it, so he cheapened his entire point by stapling on AND ALSO YOU SMELL BAD. Shoulda just let his own self-undermining have done all the work.

Man If I played that character you could not have waterboarded the truth out of me.

Dude can we just appreciate how mans is trying to slowly create an Abomination out of scotch tape and silly putty but it’s not a Gary Stu

An abomination not as in my opinion but as in the official term for what you get when you make a werewolf a vampire

@bear_necessities bro watching this guy edit in real time seconds after saying “you’re triggered” is sending me

@Pavel
well i haven’t coded in the anal circumference inference model yet so we’re looking at at LEAST Q4

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

In over thirty years of playing these damn things I have been banned once, and it was, as far as I could tell, for asking another player for their contact info and explaining that I was gonna quit since Staffer had made clear their intention to exclude me indefinitely. I’ve been threatened with banning for telling a staffer that it “felt railroady” to not be allowed to attempt a con that NPCs were already doing. The recent actual banning that had me raising eyebrows was for the hideous crime of paging people asking for RP when those people wanted to avoid the pager but did not want to go so far as to ask the pager not to contact them. That shit is harsh.

Actually, Scarpia, I banned you for being a psychic vampire who tested the patience of various players within and outside of your sphere. The reasons why you might have drawn the wrong conclusion is because you were paging people constantly bitching about the game and they told me that you were a gigantic fucking buzz kill and they were avoiding you. Funnily enough it’s essentially the same reason that retro banned Ryen: what’d they say again? “When everyone is avoiding you it’s time to go”?

I played Niyah and then later Khoi, and my staff account was Killdeer. Scarpia was Scarpia. He played the same character on SS and I invited him to play on MN because he felt like staff was targeting him on SS and he was having trouble with finding satisfying RP with other players.

@Wyrmsign HAHA omg no, Scarpia was years ago. I just don’t sit quietly when people minimize what got them banned. I’ve made my point though and I’m sure when or if I open a new game we can have a thread about it.

@Gashlycrumb

You’re not actually engaging with the point. You’re instead throwing out all wild manner of insulting bullshit to shift the conversation onto me instead of your behavior you don’t want to stay in focus.

Players asked me to keep you away from them. Period. That’s not me being the only critic, that’s me as staff doing my job as staff. People who want no contact aren’t going to contact you. It’s literally the opposite of what they want. Advocating for players is the core function of staff, and so it was me who talked to you directly, not the people who wanted no contact.

MN declined because of choices I made and I have reflected on them. Once lockdown ended, I frankly didn’t want to keep dealing with situations exactly like this one. I regret letting the game decline, and I know what I’d do differently, but honestly? I’d rather be bad at running a MUSH than unable to understand or respect boundaries or take responsibility for my own faults.

Now as for that first screen shot, doxing is the exposure of PII, which a discord conversation about your role play character isn’t. But for your comfort, I’ll remove that one, since its utility was to just confirm that you RPed the character and you’ve confirmed it.

Whoops, @Gashlycrumb I was out somewhere doin’ thangs and forgot to evidentiate what i’m talking about.

You’re Scarpia, here’s how i know,

(redacting a screen shot where it was gashlycrumb talking to me on discord about his alt)

Took me a minute to find it because I forgot I blocked you the day I banned you because you never respond to boundaries with “OK”, you’d respond to them with fucking Atlas Shrugged. That’s the problem. You wouldn’t leave people alone.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

et cetera. And this is what I can find by half-ass looking for your screen name on Discord while I’m on vacation. I wonder what is actually on my harddrive at home. Point is, no, nobody is ever banned for one tiny little harmless incident. You got banned due to a larger pattern of behavior of repeatedly sandbagging people who didn’t want contact with you.

The line you say of “but did not want to go so far as to ask the pager not to contact them” is just shifting responsibility onto others for not spelling it out for you instead of acknowledging your behavior was draining and unwelcome. And in fact, I think I did spell it out for you, repeatedly, but since I don’t have access to logs since i’m not home, whatever, let’s say I didn’t. You’re still shifting responsibility onto others for not spelling it out, instead of acknowledging your behavior was draining and unwelcome.

ETA
Wait a minute,
@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

The recent actual banning that had me raising eyebrows was for the hideous crime of paging people asking for RP when those people wanted to avoid the pager but did not want to go so far as to ask the pager not to contact them. That shit is harsh.

So you’re admitting people were avoiding you and spin it as their fault for not giving you a formal ‘do not talk to me’ WHILE dismissing the whole thing sarcastically as a “hideous crime”? Bruh. That’s WILD. Shit like this is why I banned you, man, boundary disrespecting shit like this right here.

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

In over thirty years of playing these damn things I have been banned once, and it was, as far as I could tell, for asking another player for their contact info and explaining that I was gonna quit since Staffer had made clear their intention to exclude me indefinitely. I’ve been threatened with banning for telling a staffer that it “felt railroady” to not be allowed to attempt a con that NPCs were already doing. The recent actual banning that had me raising eyebrows was for the hideous crime of paging people asking for RP when those people wanted to avoid the pager but did not want to go so far as to ask the pager not to contact them. That shit is harsh.

Actually, Scarpia, I banned you for being a psychic vampire who tested the patience of various players within and outside of your sphere. The reasons why you might have drawn the wrong conclusion is because you were paging people constantly bitching about the game and they told me that you were a gigantic fucking buzz kill and they were avoiding you. Funnily enough it’s essentially the same reason that retro banned Ryen: what’d they say again? “When everyone is avoiding you it’s time to go”?

@Pavel
well i haven’t coded in the anal circumference inference model yet so we’re looking at at LEAST Q4

@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:

@LeeRoyBatty I let his bullshit lies get to me

Wait, bullshit lies, where’s the lie?

Let me re-read this shit. He said Eddie being a sex pest has not been reported with proof. So far as I can tell, this is true. His banning was due to harrassment that was not sexual in nature AFAICT. It’s on their bbposts still, actually. That doesn’t mean that therefore Eddie is an angel, it just means that Sephiroth said Eddie isn’t a sex pest, he’s an asshole.

He then said Chaos and the rest of staff are not sex pests. Chaos calling you cute is definitely inappropriate, but I can’t say that that behavior rises to “sex pest” material, especially given that it’s all you presented, so I see no pattern. You do say “he deleted several of his weirder DMs” and that may be true, but you could also just be saying that. and Sephiroth can’t know what’s in your personal DM history with Chaos in order to lie about it so there’s no “lie” here of Sephiroth’s to get heated about.

He said that he’s not TSing. Personally I’m happy taking that at face value because it’s not a reasonable concern to maintain. I have neither the time, inclination, nor the methods to make sure that staffers are not fucking. Or if they must, at least fucking me and lavishing me with attention (in the missionary position under the auspices of holy matrimony for the procreation of children in God’s holy name, Jesus be praised)

He questioned whether you had receipts re: outing people as trans, said to his knowledge no transphobia has occurred…

And then he said “Also you smell bad therfore your argument is invalid” in so many words, but rather he said “I bet you’re Vincent” which you confirmed in spades

And then he said “Vincent was a Gangrel/kinfolk super special snowflake vampire”
which you confirmed

“complete with shifter rites”
which you confirmed

“that he got approved by utilizing a friend who was on staff that he regularly plays Dungeons and Dickheads with via discord.”
which you refuted so I’ll take you at face value that this was a lie

Then he said “Vincent has what we call Main Character Syndrome”
Which you have unsuccessfully argued against and I maintain is true

And then he goes and tells his lens on the exact same story you told (I had this kinfolk vampire who was accepted by neither side)

You also confirmed that staffers “stood up for you to let it continue to play out ICly” (Sephiroth’s phrasing) and given your play by play of how you presented yourself to the vampires, even without Eddie being a shitbag, Ray Charles could see how that was going to go from the ISS.

He claimed that you had a buddy introduce a special plot where you turn into a mortal and they shot it down, you seem to think that Golconda turns you into a mortal, it doesn’t. It just makes your beast go into remission TLDR. You still are undead/wyrm-tainted.

And then he said he refused to give you further special favors like “Extra XP to acquire more ridiculous powers, above what the templates called for”

So I mean, no, I don’t think you let Sephiroth’s “lies” get to you unless it REALLY GOT UNDER YOUR SKIN that the SPECIFIC DETAIL OF WHO APPROVED your clusterfuck of a character mattered enough to write a goddamn thesis. I still maintain Sephiroth cheapened his point by pointing out your own flawed actions, but don’t get it twisted. He ain’t lyin’. ESH, Reddit, ESH.

@Cygnus I am still desperate to know how you introduced yourself to the werwolves. We know the elysium half of the story but please indulge me about the other. Maybe you already said it and I was wildly distracted

But nobody knew or gave a shit dude so why did you even bother?
OH NO MY MUSH REPUTATION IS RUINED

Every game i join they’re going to remember that i was vincent because some obscure asshole on a game of pretend for adults who calls himself the ONE WINGED ANGEL wrote a waterfall of text most people probably didn’t even read

I better build a whole stage production to defend myself and confirm that I am this person

Next time just keep your eye on the prize and say “Who I am or am not is irrelevant to the point I’m making.” Sephiroth (cue music) didn’t do himself ANY favors by trying to discredit you because a valid statement is not invalidated by who happens to say it, so he cheapened his entire point by stapling on AND ALSO YOU SMELL BAD. Shoulda just let his own self-undermining have done all the work.

Man If I played that character you could not have waterboarded the truth out of me.

I desperately need to know more about how the werewolves felt about Uncle Vincent’s horrible case of revitiligo