Bannings

[BloodAngel]

@Rucket But just like in sales third-party stories truly close the deal.

[Third Eye]

@hobos said in Bannings:

@Third-Eye : someone with a cat icon?

That was maybe a person who wasn’t banned in the initial purge but banned later? But admittedly it also doesn’t immediately come to mind who this was.

I just don’t think anyone’s been re-banned, just banned the once. Or if they have I’ve missed a big thing and, drama.

[Selira]

@hobos Nobody who is hurt by someone has to accept their apology, especially when it’s a repeat of years of the same behavior. Especially when it only looks like they apologized because they got caught.

It can take years of work and positive action and rebuilding trust in order to accept someone back in, and frankly, even then it’s always going to be on tenuous ground because a repeat, even a minor one, can collapse the whole thing. (See, in fact, the discussions around Macha here.)

That simply hasn’t happened.

[GF]

@hobos said in Bannings:

Also, I did not read Macha’s whole conversation with farfalla, just the end. It went on too long.

I gotta say, that does not inspire confidence that you are willing to read answers directed at you.

[sao]

@hobos I don’t accept apologies for lying that include continuing to lie. A foible, perhaps.

[Roz]

@hobos said in Bannings:

To @Roz:
Regarding Macha, she says she did not mean to get farfalla banned, just warned. And farfalla was unbanned.

I actually don’t believe that Macha didn’t mean to get Farfalla banned. Ganymede specifically mentioned to someone in DMs that Macha “warned her” that people would be white knighting on Farfalla’s behalf.

[BloodAngel]

@Third-Eye Pretty sure he is talking about me. I was not banned in the first wave. I was very not cool with the unbanning process, and they self-high fiving each other for making it a more positive place through the power of censorship and dictatorship uses of fear and power.

[hobos]

@BloodAngel It was this person. I recognize that icon!

Anyway, reiterating, VulgarKitten said she was sorry in a very large post that was followed by five pages of people attacking her. Is it any wonder she didn’t want to go back to MSB, and actually swore off it in her post? Yeah, she felt safe enough to go back once some people were banned. But that doesn’t mean there is nobody left who doesn’t remember what she did. I guess the people left are just more understanding about it, mostly. Or maybe the new forum rules are just stopping people from being needlessly cruel.

[BloodAngel]

@hobos

[Rucket]

@sao said in Bannings:

@hobos I don’t accept apologies for lying that include continuing to lie. A foible, perhaps.

Big true.

I love that people act like lying isn’t a big deal but there’s lying and lying. I mean, me telling my dad I didn’t drink any of his alcohol when I was 16 and he was away for a weekend is a lie but it’s totally different from the rampant manipulative shit that goes on in MUdom.

[hellfrog]

@hobos Ah, the big post where she said she was sorry but that it wasn’t her fault it was everyone else’s fault, and really she was the victim.

Maybe she should have split those up so that the apology didn’t get lost.

[Third Eye]

@hobos said in Bannings:

@BloodAngel It was this person. I recognize that icon!

MYSTERY SOLVED.

Genuine thanks for clearing this up, one and all. And, yeah, that wasn’t someone banned in the first wave and unbanned and rebanned, that was just a ban.

[BloodAngel]

@Third-Eye Of course. I have no issues embracing my crazy. (For miss type edit)

[hobos]

@BloodAngel: Hah. Can’t be mad at you for that.

@Selira: Yes, nobody has to accept an apology. But forgiveness is still more freeing than holding ten-year-old grudges in a small community. And the main argument being made was that she never even apologized – but yes, she did.

Anyway this is going too fast for me to stay in. I wish you all the best, and hope old wounds can be healed without scars. Our hobby’s very small. It’d be nice to be able to be friends and forgive each other and direct our empathy to each other.

[BloodAngel]

@hobos To be honest it depends on the damage. Sometimes it’s not freeing, sometimes it leads to more damage to the victim. Not everything is black and white in this world. So, don’t judge or tell others what to do with their abusive stories or feelings. Allow them to exist in the hurt that they feel, and maybe in the end they will forgive. But it’s no one place to ask about this or force or lead them to water.

Whatever fucking metaphor you wish in this case. You are doing more harm to yourself and others by trying to stick up for Vulgarkitten. I understand you are friends, and I respect your willingness to go to bat for them. But, in the end, it is madness to expect a new result from this, I have seen you do this song and dance a few times with the same partners it might be time to move on.

[Rucket]

@hellfrog said in Bannings:

@hobos Ah, the big post where she said she was sorry but that it wasn’t her fault it was everyone else’s fault, and really she was the victim.

Maybe she should have split those up so that the apology didn’t get lost.

The big post where @Testament said she would be back in 4 months but it was only 2 LOL.

[hellfrog]

@hobos said in Bannings:

I wish you all the best, and hope old wounds can be healed without scars.

I imagine people will be fine so long as those who lied to them in the past aren’t showing up lying about who they are and insinuating themselves into their lives under false pretenses. Again!

[Selira]

@hobos Forgiveness can be freeing, but forgiveness also doesn’t mean opening yourself up to continued abuse, and that’s a pretty clear distinction. It’s also not a moral imperative. It is, in fact, so difficult that there are whole holidays devoted to facilitating it and trying to move on, and that people who are especially capable of it are deemed practically divine.

Letting forgiveness make you vulnerable is one of the classic things I’ve seen get good people trapped in dangerous and deadly cycles of abuse.

[GF]

@hobos said in Bannings:

Yes, nobody has to accept an apology. But forgiveness is still more freeing than holding ten-year-old grudges in a small community.

Please don’t do that. Don’t act like forgiveness is an act of enlightenment. It’s not: it’s a choice that a person makes after considering whether the act would reap greater benefits than it costs to withhold. I feel the only way anyone can present forgiveness as a categorical good is if they have never had to calculate whether forgiveness would put them into unsafe positions.

It’d be nice to be able to be friends and forgive each other and direct our empathy to each other.

Friends respect boundaries. If Vulgar Kitten wants to be anyone’s friend (as opposed to you wanting everyone else to be Vulgar Kitten’s friend, for what reason I can’t even guess), then she is welcome to attempt to earn it by respecting people’s boundaries and offering the acts of contrition they would find convincing. If she’s not willing to do that, then that sucks, but two to tango and all that.

[Rucket]

Also Forgiveness != Forgetting about bad behavior, nor should it.