Bannings
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Yeah, that is a fair enough point, and it makes sense why farfalla was unbanned in the end. Honestly I think it’d be great if everyone was unbanned and the whole community decided together to move towards a more positive attitude, getting rid of the Hog Pit and “Rough and Rowdy” sections altogether, and forgiving and forgetting when things weren’t extremely clear-cut abuse (Azazel or whatever his name is, or other serial abusers).
Edit: I can totally understand why MSB doesn’t unban everyone straight off though especially considering the behavior of one person who was unbanned and starting spewing a lot of ridiculous vitriol real fast in order to force being banned again.
I do care that VulgarKitten lied to those people, and I feel for them, particularly one who I personally admire who was really hurt by the lies. More importantly, she is sorry about it. But I understand why she felt the need. And why she felt the need, to me, is a far more egregious breach of decency as it comes with a particular power dynamic and a particular sort of exploitative abuse.
Also, I did not read Macha’s whole conversation with farfalla, just the end. It went on too long. I think she was complaining about you being cliquish or something? They are complaints I have seen/heard before and it was really dragging so I skipped to the end. For what it’s worth, I don’t think your intentions are bad or evil or that you are purposefully being some kind of exclusive internet club.
I think that when you have a place like the Hog Pit on a community forum, this is the natural evolution of human behavior over time.
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But I understand why she felt the need. And why she felt the need, to me, is a far more egregious breach of decency as it comes with a particular power dynamic and a particular sort of exploitative abuse.
There really was no need and that’s sort of the issue here. She could have chosen not to violate the NCO, she could have chosen to not manipulate people to the degree she did, she could have chosen to just… not do any of this. She chose to. She chose to do things which actively harm people. No one forced her to, it was her choice, and many of those people whom she has directly harmed or indirectly harmed don’t forgive her for it, particularly as this is representative of a long pattern of toxic behavior from this player.
If that made her feel unwelcome, then may I introduce you to the phrase, “Oh no, not the consequences of my own actions!”
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I do care that VulgarKitten lied to those people, and I feel for them, particularly one who I personally admire who was really hurt by the lies. More importantly, she is sorry about it. But I understand why she felt the need. And why she felt the need, to me, is a far more egregious breach of decency as it comes with a particular power dynamic and a particular sort of exploitative abuse.
Then there’s not really anything for us to talk about. Your logic is that, because you believe someone did wrongly by VK, that it’s okay for VK to lie to and manipulate others. Or justifiable in some fashion.
She had a choice to not return to Arx. She had a choice to not engage with people who she knew didn’t want to engage with her, even if they reached out first. She had so many choices.
I don’t know what else to tell you. Eventually, if you continue to play on games with her, you will end up between her and something she wants in the game, and eventually you’ll see what happens in those instances.
She’s not sorry. If she were sorry for being manipulative, she would have stopped being manipulative years ago.
Also, I did not read Macha’s whole conversation with farfalla, just the end. It went on too long. I think she was complaining about you being cliquish or something? They are complaints I have seen/heard before and it was really dragging so I skipped to the end. For what it’s worth, I don’t think your intentions are bad or evil or that you are purposefully being some kind of exclusive internet club.
I think that when you have a place like the Hog Pit on a community forum, this is the natural evolution of human behavior over time.
Again, I don’t really care that Macha felt the need to DM my friend to talk shit about me. Not in the sense that I’d make a public fuss about it if it had just remained that. I don’t care that she didn’t like me on a game ten years ago; I also didn’t like her on that game.
I care that she started shit and then used it as a weapon to get someone banned.
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And why she felt the need, to me, is a far more egregious breach of decency as it comes with a particular power dynamic and a particular sort of exploitative abuse.
Fuck off with this.
If she was exploited and abused to the point she had to hide who she was, riddle me this:
Why come back to the game where the HORRIBLE ABUSE happened? And more than that, why try very hard to put herself right back in that position that was so exploitative?Why SPECIFICALLY cook up a whole pitch to seduce the NPC of the GM who so horribly exploited you via NPCs? Wild.
PS you don’t have to answer, I know why she did it. I also know why you are acting as her champion.
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I do care that VulgarKitten lied to those people, and I feel for them, particularly one who I personally admire who was really hurt by the lies. More importantly, she is sorry about it.
If she is actually sorry about it, perhaps she should admit that and apologize, and not pretend to be a totally different, literally new person, which fits the profile of the issues in the first place?
Mummy Pun? MUMMY PUN!
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Also, I did not read Macha’s whole conversation with farfalla, just the end. It went on too long. I think she was complaining about you being cliquish or something? They are complaints I have seen/heard before and it was really dragging so I skipped to the end. For what it’s worth, I don’t think your intentions are bad or evil or that you are purposefully being some kind of exclusive internet club.
Going to chime in but a few people here talking about Macha’s bad behavior in the past is not the first time I’ve seen or experienced Macha’s bad behavior. In fact the experiences shared are similar to the ones I did, and others I know did.
Roz said their experience was years ago, mine was in 2020, a friend was hit in 2021/2022 with it.
I mean, clearly there’s been no effort to change or improve so pardon me for not believing what she has to say about the Farfalla Incident.
As for Cliques or Internet Friend Groups or Dogpiling Squads or whatever people want to call them, I am by no means part of any such group. And you know what, I’ve kinda been where you are. Sometimes it’s hard to see things being said against people you believe are friends or people you like. That’s just part of being human, but sometimes the things being said are true and you learn too late that someone you thought was a friend is really not. That’s another part of being human. I’m glad you are here listening to what people are saying though, and I do hope you take it to heart. I don’t think anyone is acting in a particularly malicious way towards VulgarKitten or Macha. I just think people are over giving people who clearly don’t learn chance after chance to improve. At some point you have to realize that they just aren’t going to change.
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Edit: I can totally understand why MSB doesn’t unban everyone straight off though especially considering the behavior of one person who was unbanned and starting spewing a lot of ridiculous vitriol real fast in order to force being banned again.
Who was this?
I’m legit confused and feel like I missed an unban (it sure wasn’t me, lol!).
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To @Roz:
Something that is understandable and forgiveable in my book does not mean that it is ‘okay’ or ‘justified’. Anyway, if you say there’s nothing to talk about, there’s nothing to talk about. I’ve said what I need to and will not force anyone to rehash it. Regarding Macha, she says she did not mean to get farfalla banned, just warned. And farfalla was unbanned.To others talking about VulgarKitten:
In a very public post, she did admit her fault in lying and apologize to those she hurt, and everyone jumped down her craw about it anyway.@Third-Eye : someone with a cat icon?
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@Jennkryst said in Bannings:
I do care that VulgarKitten lied to those people, and I feel for them, particularly one who I personally admire who was really hurt by the lies. More importantly, she is sorry about it.
If she is actually sorry about it, perhaps she should admit that and apologize, and not pretend to be a totally different, literally new person, which fits the profile of the issues in the first place?
100% this. If she was truly sorry about it, she would make an actual apology post without changing her account name. Hiding who you are and making apologies through a 3rd party means that she is sorry. Sorry for being caught.
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@Rucket But just like in sales third-party stories truly close the deal.
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@Third-Eye : someone with a cat icon?
That was maybe a person who wasn’t banned in the initial purge but banned later? But admittedly it also doesn’t immediately come to mind who this was.
I just don’t think anyone’s been re-banned, just banned the once. Or if they have I’ve missed a big thing and, drama.
I want something else to get me through this
Semi-charmed kinda life, baby, baby
I want something else, I'm not listening when you say good-byeShe/Her or They/Them
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@hobos Nobody who is hurt by someone has to accept their apology, especially when it’s a repeat of years of the same behavior. Especially when it only looks like they apologized because they got caught.
It can take years of work and positive action and rebuilding trust in order to accept someone back in, and frankly, even then it’s always going to be on tenuous ground because a repeat, even a minor one, can collapse the whole thing. (See, in fact, the discussions around Macha here.)
That simply hasn’t happened.
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@hobos I don’t accept apologies for lying that include continuing to lie. A foible, perhaps.
let it be a challenge to you
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To @Roz:
Regarding Macha, she says she did not mean to get farfalla banned, just warned. And farfalla was unbanned.I actually don’t believe that Macha didn’t mean to get Farfalla banned. Ganymede specifically mentioned to someone in DMs that Macha “warned her” that people would be white knighting on Farfalla’s behalf.
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@Third-Eye Pretty sure he is talking about me. I was not banned in the first wave. I was very not cool with the unbanning process, and they self-high fiving each other for making it a more positive place through the power of censorship and dictatorship uses of fear and power.
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@BloodAngel It was this person. I recognize that icon!
Anyway, reiterating, VulgarKitten said she was sorry in a very large post that was followed by five pages of people attacking her. Is it any wonder she didn’t want to go back to MSB, and actually swore off it in her post? Yeah, she felt safe enough to go back once some people were banned. But that doesn’t mean there is nobody left who doesn’t remember what she did. I guess the people left are just more understanding about it, mostly. Or maybe the new forum rules are just stopping people from being needlessly cruel.
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@hobos I don’t accept apologies for lying that include continuing to lie. A foible, perhaps.
Big true.
I love that people act like lying isn’t a big deal but there’s lying and lying. I mean, me telling my dad I didn’t drink any of his alcohol when I was 16 and he was away for a weekend is a lie but it’s totally different from the rampant manipulative shit that goes on in MUdom.
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@hobos Ah, the big post where she said she was sorry but that it wasn’t her fault it was everyone else’s fault, and really she was the victim.
Maybe she should have split those up so that the apology didn’t get lost.
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