Neitherlands

Testament

Also who the FK logs in a banned player’s character and POSTS THEIR PRIVATE SCENES. There is. Absolutely. No reason. To do that. Ever.

I mean, there is if you’re being a petty asshole. Which I think by this point, we’ve pretty much established that yeah, this person is a petty asshole. Granted, posting someone’s private logs is a particular new low.

Pavel

@hellfrog said in Neitherlands:

Also who the FK logs in a banned player’s character and POSTS THEIR PRIVATE SCENES.

Is that even a thing you have to do in Ares? Can’t a staffer just post those scenes without having to log in to the character?

Roz

@Pavel said in Neitherlands:

@hellfrog said in Neitherlands:

Also who the FK logs in a banned player’s character and POSTS THEIR PRIVATE SCENES.

Is that even a thing you have to do in Ares? Can’t a staffer just post those scenes without having to log in to the character?

I sincerely doubt it. Staff is given very little access to other people’s scenes AFAIK. I don’t think there are built in tools for staff to be able to see the content of unposted scenes unless one of the players reports something in it or something like that.

Polk

@Roz Obviously someone who owns the game could look into the database or sniff your connection to the game.

Ultimately playing on a game requires you to have some degree of trust that the player running it isn’t insane.

Roz

@Polk said in Neitherlands:

@Roz Obviously someone who owns the game could look into the database or sniff your connection to the game.

Yes, sure, but Pavel was pretty clearly talking about built-in tools accessible to your standard staffer running Ares. Someone with code know-how can absolutely go into the database to see all the things, but Ares doesn’t build tools to make that sort of thing easy/accessible when it comes to private scenes, DMs, etc.

MisterBoring

@Polk said in Neitherlands:

Ultimately playing on a game requires you to have some degree of trust that the player running it isn’t insane.

I’m convinced that everybody in this hobby is insane on some level, and you have to look out for the people with the right kind of insanity rather than people who are sane.

somasatori

@MisterBoring said in Neitherlands:

@Polk said in Neitherlands:

Ultimately playing on a game requires you to have some degree of trust that the player running it isn’t insane.

I’m convinced that everybody in this hobby is insane on some level, and you have to look out for the people with the right kind of insanity rather than people who are sane.

This is why I jumped into the MU* staff-to-psychologist pipeline.

Pavel

@somasatori said in Neitherlands:

@MisterBoring said in Neitherlands:

@Polk said in Neitherlands:

Ultimately playing on a game requires you to have some degree of trust that the player running it isn’t insane.

I’m convinced that everybody in this hobby is insane on some level, and you have to look out for the people with the right kind of insanity rather than people who are sane.

This is why I jumped into the MU* staff-to-psychologist pipeline.

Same.

Though I’d rather everyone take a big ol’ step away from the “mental illness=bad behaviour” idea.

somasatori

@Pavel said in Neitherlands:

Same.

Though I’d rather everyone take a big ol’ step away from the “mental illness=bad behaviour” idea.

Yep, same. People can be assholes without having mental illness, as living in Silicon Valley frequently reminds me. At least no one here is telling people they’re “being bipolar/borderline” yet.

Polk

@Roz Fair. So a random ‘staffer’ on an Ares game can’t. Just the owner and host.

Roz

@Polk said in Neitherlands:

@Roz Fair. So a random ‘staffer’ on an Ares game can’t. Just the owner and host.

That’s not the differentiation I meant so much. I mean that plenty of these game owners wouldn’t know how to dig into the database like this. A lot of them are just doing the very basics needed to get the game up and running, maybe upgrade the game, etc. So I was speaking more to the breakdown between gamerunners who are very savvy with the code and database stuff, versus those who wouldn’t know where to even start.

Pavel

Yeah, I very specifically said “in Ares” not “with full access to the database, the ability to fuck around in it without breaking everything, and the brain power to breathe and think at the same time.”

Testament

If a staffer wanted to be absolutely nefarious, there’s little stopping them from @newpassing a player’s character after that player had left the game(or hadn’t left if you wanted to be an even bigger shitheel), log in with said newpass and start looking at all their logs as that character.

This is what I’m assuming what happened here. And no matter how you slice it, it’s still disgusting.

Roz

@Testament said in Neitherlands:

If a staffer wanted to be absolutely nefarious, there’s little stopping them from @newpassing a player’s character after that player had left the game(or hadn’t left if you wanted to be an even bigger shitheel), log in with said newpass and start looking at all their logs as that character.

This is what I’m assuming what happened here. And no matter how you slice it, it’s still disgusting.

Yeah I assume that too. I was responding specifically to Pavel’s query wondering if the built-in Ares tools meant a staffer would even have to take that step in order to do what happened, which – from my knowledge – I think that they would. (Versus staffing having a tool to just post other player’s logs.)

Testament

@Roz Ah. Yeah, my bad. I was just noting that you don’t have to go digging around in the game’s database to find logs.

Mind, both of these actions are pretty terrible and are a pretty egregious invasion of privacy it might be. Though I do think there is something far more heinous about willfully resetting a character’s password just in order to look at their logs. Now, I might be assuming that’s the reason for such an action in this case, but I can’t think of any other reason that might need to happen.

I know as a game runner, I’ve had to @newpass people, but that was largely due to just people forgetting their password. Which really, is the usual functionality of that command. Not for a staffer that’s gone AWOL.

BloodAngel

KarmaBum

This post is deleted!

Pavel

@Testament said in Neitherlands:

a pretty egregious invasion of privacy it might be

Of course boilerplate no expectation of privacy using someone else’s system etc, etc, etc…

It’s not only deeply unethical, at least with my particular code of ethics; it’s mindbendingly fuckin’ stupid. What is even the point? If you wanna read 'em because you’re creepy, why post them?

Normally I can figure out the reasoning behind heinous crappy decisions, but I’m honestly at a loss here. What’s the point?

Roz

@Pavel said in Neitherlands:

@Testament said in Neitherlands:

a pretty egregious invasion of privacy it might be

Of course boilerplate no expectation of privacy using someone else’s system etc, etc, etc…

It’s not only deeply unethical, at least with my particular code of ethics; it’s mindbendingly fuckin’ stupid. What is even the point? If you wanna read 'em because you’re creepy, why post them?

Normally I can figure out the reasoning behind heinous crappy decisions, but I’m honestly at a loss here. What’s the point?

Expression of power. Potential humiliation of a person you don’t like.

Pavel

@Roz said in Neitherlands:

@Pavel said in Neitherlands:

@Testament said in Neitherlands:

a pretty egregious invasion of privacy it might be

Of course boilerplate no expectation of privacy using someone else’s system etc, etc, etc…

It’s not only deeply unethical, at least with my particular code of ethics; it’s mindbendingly fuckin’ stupid. What is even the point? If you wanna read 'em because you’re creepy, why post them?

Normally I can figure out the reasoning behind heinous crappy decisions, but I’m honestly at a loss here. What’s the point?

Expression of power. Potential humiliation of a person you don’t like.

I suppose. I was hoping for something more tantalising than bog standard “is a fuckstick.”