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hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread
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@hobos said in hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread:
To me, a game runner exploiting a player for TS is pretty much always going to be worse than someone lying about who they are on the interwebs.
We can complain about both.
“This person was lying on the internet and here is where we discuss them”
“Yeah, but THIS person exploited players so we should talk about that!”Sure, we should talk about such accusations. Make a thread.
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@Meg
Because VK lied so that she could avoid the previous dynamic with Apostate, and the dynamic with Corban & his friends, who she had the NCO against in the first place, and who approached her first. I’m not excusing her behavior, just pointing back to the reason why, which again is far more weighty to me.@hellfrog
… ? You upvoted the comment implying I was a rapist, didn’t you? Now you’re worried about “false accusations”? Amidst all the righteous hubbub over the person who lied about who she was on the internet there have been plenty among you who have side-wise corroborated this particular accusation.Anyway I’m not going to make a thread. If I can manage it, I’m not going to come back here and post on this topic again either. Believe it or not, it makes me feel sick to talk about and I’m not interested in maligning Apostate. Despite everything I still have a lot of admiration for him, which is perfectly possible to coexist with these claims, in a toxic homebrew that reminds me of my relationship with my father … anyway, bye. It’s yours to deal with however you will. (Probably continued ignoring of game runner abuse and commenting about how terrible VK is and how you get rapist vibes from me.)
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@hobos said in hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread:
d the dynamic with Corban & his friends, who she had the NCO against in the first place,
But he didn’t know that this was her this time. She knew that she was her. She could have backed away and avoided him. She could have reported him. She could have done anything other than engage in a romantic IC relationship with him.
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@hobos said in hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread:
… ? You upvoted the comment implying I was a rapist, didn’t you?
I certainly don’t think so, but this is a forum.
You can find and quote the post in question if you want to discuss it.
@hobos said in hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread:
Because VK lied so that she could avoid the previous dynamic with Apostate, and the dynamic with Corban & his friends
She lied and then pursued that very dynamic. She. pursued. it.
@hobos said in hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread:
reminds me of my relationship with my father
man, what, do not go around comparing random internet people you do not know to your father, that is so uncomfortable.
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@hobos said in hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread:
@Meg
Because VK lied so that she could avoid the previous dynamic with Apostate, and the dynamic with Corban & his friends, who she had the NCO against in the first place, and who approached her first.She lied about who she was and used that ignorance to engage in sexual RP from another player, which is incredibly predatory, creeper behavior, and it is so, so gross that you keep glossing over this and trying to downplay it with talk about how Corban “approached her first.”
He didn’t know who she was. She knew. This is blatantly predatory behavior.
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@hobos said in hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread:
@Meg
Because VK lied so that she could avoid the previous dynamic with Apostate, and the dynamic with Corban & his friends, who she had the NCO against in the first place, and who approached her first. I’m not excusing her behavior, just pointing back to the reason why, which again is far more weighty to me.Bringing up accusations of Apos being a creep and Corban being a creep and whoever being a creep as a defense to her behavior is literally excusing her behavior.
Like, I am never going to be one who says ‘well my friend did shitty behavior, but someone else did shitty behavior too’. I am going to listen to each accusation of shitty behavior and weigh it, and not allow justifications for it.
I think you would do yourself a big favor if you consider doing the same here. If you want to bring up accusations about Apostate, bring them up separately. Honestly. Let’s see if the evidence of it holds up without being muddled up in all of the VK shitty behavior stuff.
ETA: I also don’t like-- understand not being willing to make a post to expose someone you know is a creep if you have evidence of a creep? Like I famously burned myself doing that. But I will never not start the fire to expose a known creep, even if I have to use myself as the match.
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We keep talking about how terrible VK/hella is because:
1.) What she did is right on par with famous creepers like Cullen and DwOPP. She didn’t evade a ban (yet), but she certainly pretended to be someone else to get around No Contact requests. That’s gross. That is creeper behavior. There is absolutely no justification for it.
2.) You keep bringing her up and trying to champion her and keeping the conversation going about her. You aren’t convincing anyone that she is the blameless innocent that you want her to be. I can’t decide if you are really just this naïve or if you are still super bothered by your own ban from Arx and are conflating this with whatever lingering issues you obviously cannot get over.
Also, just gonna second @hellfrog here. Projecting your issues with your family on people you only know through a game is real weird and probably something you need to speak to a professional about.
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I hoped my chiming in might lend credence to the fact that there isn’t a wide-ranging conspiracy to try to discredit your friend. Guess I’m drinking the flavor-ade now too, in your view.
I’m sorry that she’s making you feel sick with her quarter truths.
I’m sorry that she’s lying to you.
It’s entirely possible for two people to be completely wrong in their conduct, and one to be more wrong than the other, just as you’re wrong now. Funny how that works.
You were the first person that I played with on Arx. It has been bottomlessly painful to see how fucking off the rails you’ve gone for a cause that you have no evidence for.
I guess my judge of character is pretty shit.
Don’t contact me.
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@Solstice That’s sad.
I’m sorry you’ve got that feel. -
I already did enough warning and exposing for a game I was banned from and a community that (majority) really doesn’t like me. And I’ve already expressed my thoughts personally and in private to VK about what she did to Corban. This is my preferred method of discussing disgusting things, away from the value signaling and herd mentality and shaming mechanisms that often accompany public discourse. I can understand not wanting to repeat previous dynamics when trying to start over with a new slate, including animosity, but there were probably more ways to avoid romance at least.
Also sorry it was unclear and badly worded, I was not comparing anyone I barely know to my father, I was just pointing out that I have personal life experience with conflicting feelings about people (in this case admiration/disgust).
Of course I have been trying my best not to respond to people who have blocked me on other platforms, considering that I was temp banned here for revealing that I was sending messages on discord to try to figure out who had blocked me, since obviously that is something that happens without notification. And I don’t understand why anyone would block someone and then address them on a forum except for public-discourse-reasons. I’m not sad about being banned from Arx… I was when it first happened, but even then while stuck in all my feelings I could recognize that it was a good thing, not just for everybody else but also for me. I’ve had a lot of good personal growth since then and been altogether more happy.
The only thing I am still sad about is the people I thought were my friends that were lost along the way, but I still recognize that this is fine, those are their choices and their rights, and it makes me treasure the few who remain friendly all that much more. I will miss those people and I still like them and that’s why it’s a bit painful and confusing but I have to accept and move on with my life.
Anyway hopefully this time I really have said everything necessary and can leave you all alone.
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That was all the confirmation I needed for my theory.
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I don’t know you and don’t actually believe we interacted very much while you were on Arx.
I do know VK and her constant manipulative behavior when she did not get her way. Her constantly going above and around character’s heads when she thought she could get her way with them over others, and then the huge meltdowns and temper tantrums when it didn’t work as she thought it would.
How during her last stint on the game she specifically reached out to my character on multiple occasions through multiple alts via pages and messages when she knew that we were not friends OOC and we avoided one another IC. How after she implanted herself into my character’s life it caused a large amount of stress for me, because I did everything in my power to avoid conflict with a brand new player and gave her the benefit of doubt because THE NEW PLAYER asked OOC if the past could be smoothed over because she was NEW and per the game rules its better for all to not hold the sins of past players on the heads of the new player. How I ignored my gut feeling, and everyone saying ‘Its amazing how much like the old player she plays Monqiue and how true to sheet she is’ to give her the benefit of the doubt. And you know, I felt validated when it turned out true to sheet meant being the same fucking player. I also could not take my very social character into public for 4 months afterward her ban because of how terrible I felt about the entire situation she forced me into just because I am nothing like her and wanted to make the game fun for a new player.
So fuck you if you think her interactions with Apostate is the only thing that matters and everything else she did to screw with everyone else should be forgotten and forgiven. If someone was shitty to you it doesnt give you total justification to then be shitty to EVERYONE ELSE.
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I am going to throw in my unwarranted two cents into this just to get the bare minimum of my thoughts and feelings on this situation off my chest. I have myriad things I can say, none of which I know will translate properly via text on an online forum, so I have refrained from getting into the nitty gritty of it all.
Many of the people who were victims of VK/Monique’s last stint on Arx are people that I have known for many years whether we are good friends, known acquaintances, or familiar with one another in the sense that we also played on Firan. I witnessed from their perspectives how hurt, devastated, and duped they felt. In addition to that, many of these players have also been badly burned by someone who duped them in the past and so they were already somewhat on high alert. Her actions messed with them mentally and emotionally and it made some of them feel unsafe.
She willingly and knowingly pursued and allowed relationships to be built under false pretenses. That is predatory behavior. It is narcissistic behavior. It is toxic.
In this situation, actions speak louder than words. She chose those actions of her own will, to benefit herself and did not for a moment give a damn about who she had to hurt so long as she got what she wanted. And I do not mean this in an IC sense. She went after players.
I have seen and felt the fallout of this situation and I feel true empathy for my game friends who did not deserve to be treated this way. I also have empathy for you @hobos - I do not know you. I do not believe we have ever played together. I am only going by what I’ve read and how you’ve staunchly defended someone who does not need defending but rather needs to own up to their own mistakes (but they never will, because narcissists are never wrong. They will go to great lengths to paint themselves the victim even if that means betraying someone close to them).
I have no ill will towards VK, or towards you. We are after all real people on the other side of this screen. But I will certainly be keeping tabs and where they will be playing in order to avoid it like the plague.
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@Solstice said in hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread:
We had a lot of fun together. I vouched for you a lot, and kept your stories alive as long as I could in-game, well past their expiration date or even after your ban; past the time that it was wise to have done so.
I think it’s really cool that you did that. I think the best part about MU* as a medium is the way stories are created collaboratively and sometimes long survive the player/character that started them as others build on the original concept.
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@hobos VK/Hella lies. A lot. She did the same shit on Arx that she was doing a decade ago.
I missed you when you got yourself booted from Arx, but, well. I hope you manage to get yourself out of the hole she’s encouraging you to dig for her.
