Liberation MUSH
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@Warma-Sheen said in Liberation MUSH:
@Mourne said in Liberation MUSH:
@MisterBoring Because dice are superior to pips and rock paper scissors
Wrong.
(Apparently, there’s no imperative to support our left-field opinions with any sort of supporting evidence or argument, so that makes this an easy one.)
Objection: Presumes facts not in evidence.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Liberation MUSH:
@Mourne said in Liberation MUSH:
@MisterBoring Because dice are superior to pips and rock paper scissors
Wrong.
(Apparently, there’s no imperative to support our left-field opinions with any sort of supporting evidence or argument, so that makes this an easy one.)
OBVIOUSLY, the only SUPERIOR way to play is to just be yourself. Since we can’t roll dice to convince people of things though some kind of… social combat system, and we have to actually brain-up the vague concepts of ideas… we should also do this with physical combat. Who’s first to playtest damage resistance rolls vs explosions? My vote is on chunky salsa.
Mummy Pun? MUMMY PUN!
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@Jennkryst Chunky Salsa is SO last year. We aim for funny tasting air around here.
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Liberation MUSH has serious policy problems. Specifically, when people report controlling, manipulative OOC behavior or else sex-pesting, the game’s head staff member, Sundance, typically does not do anything. In fact, she might even blame the victim.
Further, it is against Liberation’s rules for a player who is not the victim of such behavior to report it. For example, if your friend falls foul of controlling behavior, it is a violation of game policies for your friend to tell you, and it is a violation of game policies for you to tell Sundance.
Finally, no game staff, or storytellers, other than Sundance are permitted to be involved in handling these issues, so players have no option but to go to her.
I personally experienced this some time ago, in a situation involving a player who is the sometime subject of discussion on this forum, though I am reluctant to dig up detail. It was a bad experience. I told myself that my situation was a once-off, that perhaps there was inadequate evidence. However, I have seen incidents since then involving other players. Other players have told me of deeply problematic behavior that has gone unaddressed.
I know that at least one member of Liberation’s staff is a regular poster on these forums. He may come to say that people should take the issues to Sundance. Even if Sundance was handling problems properly, I do not think the game’s staff realize how difficult it is, at times, for victims of such behavior to come forward directly to a stranger. It is harder still when that stranger has a reputation for dismissing problems without taking action and, worse, of blaming victims.
I realize that I am screaming into the void here and that it is extremely unlikely that anything will change. Perhaps it might at least warn others.
If Sundance happens to read this, please reconsider this entire approach. You are demonstrably not able for this specific aspect of running the game, which in itself is not a fault if you own it and delegate it to somebody who is. The policy of enforced silence on the part of a victim’s friends is damaging and should be removed, too.
I’m not going to kid myself into expecting change, but I can hope.
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@Tchotchke said in Liberation MUSH:
Further, it is against Liberation’s rules for a player who is not the victim of such behavior to report it. For example, if your friend falls foul of controlling behavior, it is a violation of game policies for your friend to tell you, and it is a violation of game policies for you to tell Sundance.
YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKES
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@Coin This is the specific policy post. It’s bb 1/22, posted on 7 June.
"* Proxy Complaints: I don’t want to hear complaints made on behalf of other players. If someone has a problem here, they need to bring it to me personally. If they don’t trust me enough…fine. A) I don’t see how you coming to me on their behalf changes anything in that case, and B) I probably can’t do anything for them anyways, if that’s their attitude.
But that’s not usually what it is about. Although it might be painted that way. It’s virtually always about the proxy complainer looking for an excuse to dig in about someone they don’t like, or some other agenda. Which is fine. It’s human nature to look for such opportunities. But I’m much too busy to keep tolerating that particular facet of human nature. I’d rather be telling story for someone, than have to listen to yet another complaint on behalf of another player who is supposedly too timid or frightened to come to me themselves. (Especially since that’s not the case 90% of the time.)"
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@Tchotchke wow, the tone of that.
But, I wanted to clarify - you said policy means it’s against policy for someone to even tell their friends about bad behavior happening to them, and I don’t see that in the snippet you posted.
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@hellfrog Hopefully this clarifies it. Bb 1/21
"If you have an OOC problem with someone or something, bring it to me. If you don’t trust me to handle it, then go play somewhere else. Because the telephone bullshit often ends up wasting a lot of my time.
None of you can ever solve anything OOCly between yourselves - so don’t try. And don’t waste other player’s time by bitching at them or trying to stir shit between them and others.
No one else needs to hear about your concerns, and it is no player’s prerogatives to decide who they need to bring these matters to. I am the only one on this game that addresses OOC disputes or concerns…except in very limited circumstances where my Directors handle specifically narrative or mechanic concerns within their spheres.
Let me make it crystal clear: Seeking to OOCly ‘warn’ or ‘vent’ or ‘bitch’ out other players is a breach of policy around here. And if the person you’re warning, venting to or bitching out, takes it to me (which they should), I will pull your bit. It doesn’t matter if it happened here or on Discord or anywhere else, if it still ends up eventually making trouble for me to deal with."
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oop there it is.
Well, we have pages and pages of shit behavior on staff’s part at Liberation. Add it to the records.
Good luck, people that play there.
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Literally the language of abusers in those posts.
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@Tchotchke said in Liberation MUSH:
I’m not going to kid myself into expecting change, but I can hope.
Don’t. Like – this thread has pages of shittery, the MSB had way more pages of shittery. After pages and pages of shittery, you’re just fooling yourself. Just stop playing. These things don’t change.
#StopPlayingOnGamesWithShittyStaff2023
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@Roz said in Liberation MUSH:
#StopPlayingOnGamesWithShittyStaff2023
for real. Read a book. Join a discord rp chat. Make your own mush! develop a laudanum addiction - anything
fr fr
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@Roz You are, of course, right. I went into the place somehow oblivious to it and had to discover it ‘organically’, so to speak.
@hellfrog said in Liberation MUSH:
@Roz said in Liberation MUSH:
#StopPlayingOnGamesWithShittyStaff2023
for real. Read a book. Join a discord rp chat. Make your own mush! develop a laudanum addiction - anything
All sound options.
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@Tchotchke said in Liberation MUSH:
@Roz You are, of course, right. I went into the place somehow oblivious to it and had to discover it ‘organically’, so to speak.
Yeah ofc the vast majority of MUers don’t frequent this board or MSB, most people don’t have whole threads of game drama before they join a game. But!! I just mean it’s not gonna change, now that you know. My evidence is: the amount of complaints over the past couple years and the fact that things sadly haven’t changed.
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@hellfrog said in Liberation MUSH:
@Roz said in Liberation MUSH:
#StopPlayingOnGamesWithShittyStaff2023
for real. Read a book. Join a discord rp chat. Make your own mush! develop a laudanum addiction - anything
acid is really fun to drop, guys.
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Bring back Victorian era drug problems!
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@Tchotchke said in Liberation MUSH:
Let me make it crystal clear: Seeking to OOCly ‘warn’ or ‘vent’ or ‘bitch’ out other players is a breach of policy around here. And if the person you’re warning, venting to or bitching out, takes it to me (which they should), I will pull your bit. It doesn’t matter if it happened here or on Discord or anywhere else, if it still ends up eventually making trouble for me to deal with."
Yikes. That’s just… beyond the pale. Trying to police what people say even outside the game (not that Staff should be policing private communications anyway) is just a huge red flag.
I think I entertained possibly playing at Liberation a while back, but some of its policies made me pause. Looks like it was a good decision.
All that said, I’m going to drop a Hot Take here and say that I kinda get Sundance’s frustration here. Having a mostly uninvolved third party come to you on behalf of someone else is a thorny thing. You pretty much have to go to the person referred and say: “Hey, I’ve heard you have X problem. Would you like to talk about it?” and if they say X Problem isn’t one well… you just wasted a bunch of time and stress. And if it is a problem and they just don’t trust you enough to say so, what can you do? Staff aren’t mind readers and can’t be expected to take action based on just rumors. Plenty of bad actors will use such a tactic to remove people they don’t like.
So I do kinda get why Sundance is so frustrated here, but banning any sort of talk about the problems – on game or off game – sure as hell isn’t the proper response.
