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    MU Peeves Thread

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Rough and Rowdy
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    • SnacknessS
      Snackness @Testament
      last edited by

      @Testament You rang?

      dontarx.png

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
      • M
        mietze
        last edited by

        I think unfortunately rp around sexual or relationship themes and practices regardless of what they are will always be ripe for manipulation and abuse. I find either extreme (more kinky/prudish than thou) to be especially vulnerable to that and seeing lots of ooc public declarations about it on chan/chat/ooc in room will make me avoid either person because its a huge red flag for me and makes me uncomfortable.

        I find the considerate people keep everything in the appropriate spaces/stay out of the labeled spaces they know that they don’t want to be in.

        If someone isn’t capable of that discernment I don’t find them to be a player I will feel comfortable around. I don’t care what they’re into or not.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
        • hellfrogH
          hellfrog
          last edited by

          My today MU peeve is the DO NOT ARX. It’s a MU. If someone mentions something outside the thread it usually lives in, it’s gonna be ok

          fr fr
          (she/her)

          SnacknessS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
          • SnacknessS
            Snackness @hellfrog
            last edited by

            @hellfrog yayarx.png

            hellfrogH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
            • hellfrogH
              hellfrog @Snackness
              last edited by

              @Snackness I’ll arx if I want to

              fr fr
              (she/her)

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
              • AriaA
                Aria
                last edited by

                In my experience, abusers are going to be abusive regardless of what community, culture, or system they’re in. They will find ways to bend the rules and norms of that setting to their advantage, as well as to blame those they abuse for somehow being at fault for what was done to them. And this is true for any kind of abuse, although sexual abuse is the most egregious.

                The key to minimizing this is making it clear from the outset that it’s not acceptable by the broader community as a whole, then enforcing this mandate regularly and consistently when it’s uncovered that oh, hey, surprise, this abusive person is a piece of shit. Officially, yes, but also unofficially, with a general aura of “You fuckers are not welcome here.” that is present from start to finish.

                It’s not perfect, not by any means, but no system is and I think it’s the only way to balance the fact that everyone’s experiences, preferences, and desires are their own and that no one else really has the right to dictate that for others, save those who cannot possibly consent for whatever reason.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 16
                • farfallaF
                  farfalla
                  last edited by

                  the standard on mu* should just be “don’t do weird shit in public” but that will never be enough because social norms somehow go out the window in text and we have to parse everything to death

                  just don’t do weird shit to people you don’t know, pals

                  as previously stated, good day.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 10
                  • helveticaH
                    helvetica
                    last edited by

                    alt text

                    boners rn

                    Street Cred

                    farfallaF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 10
                    • farfallaF
                      farfalla @helvetica
                      last edited by

                      @helvetica look what you’ve done

                      as previously stated, good day.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • IoleRaeI
                        IoleRae @Kestrel
                        last edited by IoleRae

                        @Kestrel

                        Telling somebody to stop slut shaming isn’t prude shaming. “Vampire is a game with sexual themes baked in, so if you’re not comfortable with sexual themes, you probably shouldn’t play vampire because even the base sourcebook’s pictures will make you uncomfortable” is also not prude shaming.

                        People shouldn’t play things that make them uncomfortable, but they also shouldn’t try and keep other people from playing those things, as long as they’re doing so in places designated for them, and the existence of places designated for such things is not actually a slight against the prudish.

                        From my perspective, unwanted sexual attention/pressure on games gets people permabanned faster than anything else. It is a Problem and it is a problem that usually gets dealt with VERY swiftly by even the bad staffers (barring, you know, places like Haven). It is a huge no-no, and consent around this stuff is REALLY important. Yes, there are bad actors. There are bad actors everywhere.

                        That doesn’t make it ok to slut shame, or to imply that everyone who participates in kink culture is a fucking predator.

                        If you’re playing in environments where people are competing to show off their kink and flaming people for being prudes, get off Haven. I thought you quit. That shit still ain’t acceptable in polite society, and on normal games it isn’t.

                        If anyone is dealing with unwanted sexual pressure on a mush, go to staff. If staff do not squish it, leave the game. Now. If you need help or talking points or a pep-talk or anything at all like that, let me know. Let somebody you trust know. I can almost guarantee that no non sexmu* staffer worth their salt wants the kink olympics on their game in public with a side of prude shaming. Like, nobody. Nobody wants that anywhere except Haven or Shang. Even on Shang you’ll get lit on fire for harassment (or you used to; idk what enforcement there is like these days).

                        the entity previously known as Sunny

                        LunaL 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 8
                        • LunaL
                          Luna @IoleRae
                          last edited by

                          @IoleRae Wait. Wait wait wait. Are we literally talking about sex games in these complaints? Bc that’s disingenuous af.

                          Understandable, have a nice day.

                          IoleRaeI G 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • IoleRaeI
                            IoleRae @Luna
                            last edited by IoleRae

                            @Luna

                            Haven isn’t technically a sex game afaik, it’s just got the worst staff this side of the Mississippi that is grossly, abhorrently abusive. Kestrel keeps going back and then making a pikachu face when it turns out to be just as bad this time as it was last time. Idk if that’s the game they’re talking about right now, but since they said they were experiencing this on a mu*, that’s pretty much the only game I know of where the kink olympics shit goes down. shrughands. Oh, maybe City of Hope. Don’t play on City of Hope, gawd. It’s the Dark Metal of the 2010s and 2020s, except replace the cyberpunk with uncomfortable sex.

                            the entity previously known as Sunny

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • KestrelK
                              Kestrel
                              last edited by Kestrel

                              So are we gonna pretend MUSHes haven’t seen a parade of race fetishists, 7’0 buff Daddy dom pregnancy fetishists with their tiny pixie subs, furries etc. over the years?

                              What I’m talking about happens everywhere, online and in real life.

                              I don’t endorse slut-shaming; I simply think it’s a virtually non-existent bogeyman under the stairs compared to the uncritical normalisation of kink culture in everyday life, and the shaming of anyone who ever has the audacity to criticise it or to simply not want to partake in it.

                              LunaL 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • RozR
                                Roz
                                last edited by Roz

                                All of this feels like such a weird conversation of extremes. And it feels very much like extremes born of personal hurt and a reaction to the shape that particular experience took for individuals.

                                For one thing, posts have gotten characterized as “pro-kink” that just read to me as people generally wanting consensual exploration of sexual RP to be okay, which to me is not really about being pro-kink or anti-kink.

                                Abuse on MU*s happens on both ends of this spectrum. When purity culture is more rampant, than victims end up controlled by threats of exposure for engaging in dirty behavior. When extremes of sex positive becomes the norm, then yes, abusers will instead use the idea of “acceptance” to abuse consent. As @Aria said, abusers will use whatever tools are available to them.

                                I find the idea that we are somehow in a post-slut-shaming society or whatever to be pretty questionable when I see it happen right in front of my face. But, like, I think the only game I’ve stepped foot on that had a high kink or fetish level was Shang, the literal sex game with a literal system to record kinks, and I’ve been in and out of the hobby for a couple decades. It’s not the case that it’s a universal MU* experience to see a parade of fetish on games; it very much has depended on where you’re playing.

                                ETA: also what did the furries even do

                                she/her | playlist

                                KestrelK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 13
                                • bear_necessitiesB
                                  bear_necessities
                                  last edited by

                                  FWIW I wasn’t talking about sex MUSHes and I’ve never experienced a game where kinks that are being described are happening publically and that wasn’t even my peeve. We’ve gone way off course now though so IDEK what the peeve is anymore lol

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 7
                                  • KestrelK
                                    Kestrel @Roz
                                    last edited by

                                    @Roz said in MU Peeves Thread:

                                    ETA: also what did the furries even do

                                    About 1 in 6 of them self-identify as zoophiles, and close to half admit a nonzero sexual attraction towards animals.

                                    tsarT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • AriaA
                                      Aria
                                      last edited by

                                      So I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that Based On My Personal Experience and That is a Giant Fucking Caveat with Many Asterisks*, both of what @Roz and @kestrel are saying is correct. It’s just been that my general experience has been that slut-shaming culture on MU*s is usually very much conducted in public and kink-shaming culture is usually very much conducted in private, either by the abuser directly or by the circle around them, with latter being something I most often encountered on WoD games.

                                      Like other users in the thread have said that I’m too lazy to dig up, sexuality in general and some level of kink specifically is baked right into the theme of Vampire and has been since in launched in… 1992? 1993? It doesn’t have to be played, but it frequently is.

                                      In regards to kink, and to BDSM specifically, I really do think that the power dynamics of such relationships make them easier to devolve into something that is abusive. They are, by their nature, higher risk. But they are by no means whatsoever inherently abusive and, like I said above, any community, any culture, any system, will have abusers in it that need to be recognized and removed as swiftly as possible. This requirement is doubly true for anything involving BDSM and is very much why the community has to go balls to the wall with consent, communication, negotiation, safe words, contracts. It can be very, very dangerous if you don’t, as we’ve seen in the news several times in the last three years alone.

                                      And that is exactly why, on every game I have staffed on, STed on, or written for, my policy has always been “I absolutely do not care what kind of ‘weird’ sex stuff y’all are getting up to, as long as it’s consensual. And yes, that includes not roping in unwitting public participants into whatever you’re doing because that’s not consensual.” I am adamantly against coming out commenting on kinks in general, and even specific kinks I find weird and gross, because the most important thing to me is people being able to report something the moment they feel abused or unsafe. In public, in private, or yes, even on public channels, where the whole “not roping unwitting participants in to your sexy times” still applies.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 7
                                      • tsarT
                                        tsar @Kestrel
                                        last edited by

                                        @Kestrel said in MU Peeves Thread:

                                        @Roz said in MU Peeves Thread:

                                        ETA: also what did the furries even do

                                        About 1 in 6 of them self-identify as zoophiles, and close to half admit a nonzero sexual attraction towards animals.

                                        I feel like we’re way fucking off course at this point.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 12
                                        • farfallaF
                                          farfalla
                                          last edited by

                                          I feel like the peeves thread on a Mu* forum is probably not the best forum for detailed debates over ‘Kink: Good or Bad?’ It should probably be, for one thing, a discussion people are consenting to join and I’m mildly requesting that it …go somewhere else.

                                          as previously stated, good day.

                                          LunaL 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                          • tsarT
                                            tsar
                                            last edited by

                                            Yeah, like at this point can it just be split off to somewhere else? Or stopped?

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
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