RL Peeves
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@RightMeow said:
Again, I don’t feel unsafe. I think he’s a creep, but I already thought that. It just… doesn’t sit well with me and I’m not fully sure why since again, I’m not having a reaction personally.Because there have been zero actual consequences. He behaved badly, in a way that was personally violating even if “iT wAsN’t AcTuAlLy DaNgErOuS!!!” and isn’t receiving so much as a reprimand as long as he talks to someone about his feelings. I’d literally bet money that your brain is sitting there going, “Ohh, so shitty men get to be shitty again without anything that even vaguely resembles accountability. Cool cool cool.” and just, like, hasn’t articulated that clearly to you yet.
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As the photo was deleted and there was no harm.
any HR rep worth anything would acknowledge it was the act that was the harm, and that it really didn’t matter if there wasn’t anything physical you could point to.
that is super shitty, I’m sorry. is escalating not really on the table?
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@RightMeow What @Aria said.
Also because you are probably at least somewhat aware that therapy generally does not teach abusers not to be abusive. It teaches them to use concepts and terminology from therapy to be better at abuse and victim-blaming. The therapist’s job is to improve their client’s, in this case the abuser’s, well-being. The therapist isn’t working for you or everybody else around this guy. So “I will reach out to my therapist about this” is pretty much the opposite of addressing the problem. Really it goes, “I will talk to my therapist, who will almost certainly give me reasons I am not really in the wrong here and help me more effectively reverse our roles so you’re wrong and what I did is no big deal.”
Returning to @Wizz’s mention of narcissists, that’s what mine did. And came home to tell me that his therapist said he was healthy and I was the abuser. Because I was “withholding affection to be manipulative” (ex evidently didn’t tell therapist that the reason I slept on the couch every night was because ex was too damn clingy and I can’t sleep when I’m being crushed and coated in sweat, and because ex would sleep with his hand on my junk and then randomly SQUEEZE in his sleep, which was fucking intolerable, and because ex snored and refused to even try anything to stop it but just denied it, and because ex would hit the ‘snooze’ button a dozen times every morning, resulting in an hour-and-a-half of non-sleep for me regardless of if I had to get up that morning. And so on. My furiously yelling at ex to get out of the house and take a walk one day was also listed as abusive behaviour on my part, and of course ex didn’t tell Therapist that I did that because ex was holding the cat by the scruff of her neck and punching her and my failing is really that I didn’t try to beat him senseless, which would have at least been slightly fair, since he had only 35 lb on me rather than the 145 or so he had on the cat.
Anyway, yeah, that’s some ol’ bullshit, this guy shouldn’t get away with this crap.
I don’t think deleting the photo makes the harm not real.
“This is Liberty Hall; you can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard!”
– A. Bertram Chandler -
As the photo was deleted and there was no harm.
The harm was that it was taken at all, wtf
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There’s no escalation at this point and not really one to go to. It’s just very frustrating as he’s had to be coached about making comments about people. I just keep thinking what if this was the minor child I have in my employ.
Then I was like, am I being weird? I logically know I’m not but well thanks. It helps to hear that my reaction is probably the more sane one.
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There’s no escalation at this point and not really one to go to. It’s just very frustrating as he’s had to be coached about making comments about people. I just keep thinking what if this was the minor child I have in my employ.
Then I was like, am I being weird? I logically know I’m not but well thanks. It helps to hear that my reaction is probably the more sane one.
It’s also shitty where HR, at least in big companies like the one I work in, won’t escalate unless a lawsuit is possible or likely. Then they will put on a song and dance to try to show they are doing something, which is never a permanent fix. Unfortunately, filing a lawsuit is basically the nuclear option and almost ends up burning bridges.
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HR circles back to let me know the photo has been deleted. However, the male co-worker said he’s reaching out to his therapist about it and my female HR thinks that’s really good enough. As the photo was deleted and there was no harm.
Why are they centring his feelings. Wtf is this pickme ass logic. I assume he’s a grown adult?? Oh wow so sad he’s still working through his issues to not take an inappropriate picture of a colleague without consent. Poor him, hope he can make it through this tough time???
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HR circles back to let me know the photo has been deleted. However, the male co-worker said he’s reaching out to his therapist about it and my female HR thinks that’s really good enough. As the photo was deleted and there was no harm.
Why are they centring his feelings. Wtf is this pickme ass logic. I assume he’s a grown adult?? Oh wow so sad he’s still working through his issues to not take an inappropriate picture of a colleague without consent. Poor him, hope he can make it through this tough time???
Because that’s the path of least amount of work for HR and probably exposes to the company the least amount of risk to a successful lawsuit. Terminating an employee is a lot of work and exposes the company to a wrongful termination lawsuit. Putting an official warning or mark on that employee’s record also exposes them to a potential lawsuit if @rightmeow wishes to sue them, because now there is evidence of wrongdoing.
Now I know we have a number of lawyers in this community so they can correct me if I’m wrong or provide more clarification, but this is what I’ve heard from others working in corporate and what I’ve seen in my corporate career. Many of us agree and have an understanding that HR is not there to help you. They are there to help and protect the company as their employee.
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HR circles back to let me know the photo has been deleted. However, the male co-worker said he’s reaching out to his therapist about it and my female HR thinks that’s really good enough. As the photo was deleted and there was no harm.
Why are they centring his feelings. Wtf is this pickme ass logic. I assume he’s a grown adult?? Oh wow so sad he’s still working through his issues to not take an inappropriate picture of a colleague without consent. Poor him, hope he can make it through this tough time???
Because that’s the path of least amount of work for HR and probably exposes to the company the least amount of risk to a successful lawsuit.
Absolutely not. They should be firing him. They are exposing the company to wild amounts of risk if he does anything in the future.
im in hr
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Because that’s the path of least amount of work for HR and probably exposes to the company the least amount of risk to a successful lawsuit.
Absolutely not. They should be firing him. They are exposing the company to wild amounts of risk if he does anything in the future.
im in hr
Yeah, not a lawyer here, but if this guy keeps it up and RightMeow is documenting everything meticulously – particularly HR’s refusal to actually, y’know, do fuck all about him – I believe the magic words are “hostile work environment”, at least in the US. That’s when you call an attorney.
P.S. – The consult call about whether you have a case or not is free.
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@junipersky That middle link is the article I linked to.
The main thing I support is the penalties against district boards for bad student performance. If things are going that poorly those at the top should get canned.
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Also because you are probably at least somewhat aware that therapy generally does not teach abusers not to be abusive. It teaches them to use concepts and terminology from therapy to be better at abuse and victim-blaming. The therapist’s job is to improve their client’s, in this case the abuser’s, well-being. The therapist isn’t working for you or everybody else around this guy. So “I will reach out to my therapist about this” is pretty much the opposite of addressing the problem. Really it goes, “I will talk to my therapist, who will almost certainly give me reasons I am not really in the wrong here and help me more effectively reverse our roles so you’re wrong and what I did is no big deal.”
Yeah, that’s fuckin horrible, incompetent, and unethical therapy. Sadly common, but that’s not how it’s meant to be.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
BE AN ADULT -
@RightMeow Get a copy of the video feed for yourself if you haven’t yet.
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Absolutely get a copy of the video, but remember that HR is there to protect the company, not you.
We recently had three female employees come forward about sexual harassment from a male coworker. They contacted HR and the union. HR told them they’d investigate. The union told them they’d investigate, but he was also a union employee, so they’d need to protect him too. He was told to stay away from them while it happened.
So of course the first thing he did was corner one of them by the copier and say “So I guess I’m sexually harassing you huh?”
In the end they didn’t interview any of the witnesses and decided it was just a real he-said, she-said and he had a VP backing him so it was fine. No sexual harassment actually happened.
He still works there. Other male employees have stepped up to ensure that when those women (and others) are in the office they act as a buffer, but every single one of them is looking for a new job right now and HR made it clear they don’t want these women causing any more problems.
Get the video and get a lawyer.
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I have the world’s worst, pickiest (NEEDLESSLY/USELESSLY PICKIEST) art director above me AAAAAAA
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@Pavel said:
Yeah, that’s fuckin horrible, incompetent, and unethical therapy. Sadly common, but that’s not how it’s meant to be.It’s horrible. I’m not sure what a therapist could do about it, though.
I would guess (maybe because I’m naive and actually tend to think well of people until they really prove otherwise) that ex’s therapist is competent and ethical, but what’s he gonna do when the client lies and/or withholds so much relevant information that it’s a lie all but technically? The complaint of “My partner got mad at me and kicked me out of our shared house for an hour,” sounds terrible and is believable. “My partner stopped me from physically abusing a cat and insisted I go outside and cool off,” would be accurate, but the therapist isn’t likely to guess that. Ex’s therapist totally caused harm this way, but I can’t blame the therapist.
Ex’s mom’s therapist did similar stuff, and helped MiL harm me, too. Eventually that therapist did figure it out, and the result was really classic. MiL actually said, “My therapist says I have Borderline Personality Disorder and described it to me. It’s true, but it’s really disrespectful for her to have said that, so I fired her.”
There’s probably some super-expert therapist out there who teaches other therapists how to deal with this, but it does sound like a hell of a challenge and a special skill.
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It’s horrible. I’m not sure what a therapist could do about it, though.
[…]
There’s probably some super-expert therapist out there who teaches other therapists how to deal with this, but it does sound like a hell of a challenge and a special skill.
Disclaimer that I’m not a therapist/doctor of any kind, but my understanding is that mentalisation therapy (MBT) can be effective on abusive types if they’re at the point where they actually want to change. That can sometimes happen after they’ve burned every last bridge and start to gain an inkling that they might be the problem, but don’t bank on it.
What I’m probably more qualified to say is what helped me personally, which is letting go. Like I would just stop spending so much energy wondering what’s wrong with them, and how they can be helped, and why they did what they did, and how they can be made to understand your perspective, etc. In a way they’re still controlling you when you have this mindset because your inner world still revolves around them, and you wanna snatch that right back and instead start thinking about who you are, and what you want, and all the cool things you can do without all that dead weight dragging you down, regardless of whatever irrelevant motives they had for all the nonsense they caused.
I have a family member who’s genuinely very insane, whom I still have to see on occasion. And I’ve come to just think of them as a cat. A cat has no intention to hurt you. A cat isn’t thinking about you at all. A cat doesn’t knock the glass off the counter or bite your feet and scratch up your legs in the night because of some misunderstanding, miscommunication, or wrongdoing on your part, they’re just doing what cats do. And no amount of tearfully explaining to that cat how important it is to you that they don’t knock the glass off the counter is gonna make them understand or care or not do it, because they’re a cat and have a cat brain. And it doesn’t make the cat evil, it just makes them a cat, they literally cannot comprehend evil. There’s no reason to ever take anything a cat does personally; they’re a cat. So then whenever I see this person and they act insane or make inappropriate comments about my body or whatever else I can just think: cat, and compartmentalise all their lunacy separate from any standards or thoughts or feelings I would ordinarily apply to interactions with an actual human being. Oh and you know, don’t try to rub their belly when you know it’s a trap.
That’s what helps me, anyway.
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Thanks to everyone for investing your time in my little gripe. I do honestly appreciate it. The matter is further complicated (or not) that I am an Operations Manager and he is a team member, so it skews power balance and things, I guess. Maybe.
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