@Ashkuri

I’m glum about a circumstance that I can’t really talk about with anyone and it’s just one of those things where I wish I had some no-judgment RP therapist to vent at. I feel dumb about it, but then also angry and hurt and offended and sad and scared/anxious. The answer is to walk away, but I don’t want to walk away. Meh. I’ll get over it.

Please enjoy my boy Casper!

DID SOMEONE SAY WHALES

When I lived in Florida I’d have to cross a bridge across a bay to work and occasionally I would see dolphins. I couldn’t take pictures because I was driving very fast with traffic HOWEVER I have recreated the experience to fully immerse you.

A while ago I was in an event scene with someone that could not string sentences together to save his life. No real regard for capitalization or punctuation, but he was able to communicate what he was going for. Sure I’d prefer something more polished, but his character was amusing, and he rolled with the punches. He wasn’t boring. He was real. He was genuine. It was clear to me because every word he managed to type at us, no matter how mangled, was something from his own mind. I’m not really sure what my point is. I don’t really know how to explain that it’s important, at least to me, to know that the word you’ve included in your pose was something you chose, you settled on.

I know of another player that was pretty fast and loose with punctuation, and happened to be… pretty boring. They came to an event I was running and we had a minor little poetry contest. A poet character came up with a sweet and snappy haiku. Then, noticing positive reactions, fast-and-loose belted out an 8 stanza rhyming poem in 3 minutes, perfectly formatted, entirely different from that player’s writing style. I was baffled at first. It did not cross my mind that someone would’ve gone out of their way to generate something like that for a silly poetry contest. The stakes could not be lower.

I guess I want to know what people mean by improving their poses. Making them longer. Filling in the gaps? Do you simply give the LLM a prompt like “respond posing my character takes off his coat and goes into the kitchen to make something”? Is it more detailed than that? Simpler?

I know this is gonna’ be hard to believe for some folk, but you can actually have a game of relatively decent people that, even on their off days, won’t be particularly rude or pushy directly to the game runners. It might not be a BIG game, but from what I gather, it doesn’t look like most staffers want to staff big games anyway.

@Faraday There is a human that’s in charge of disinviting people to games. If the human uses their human brain to use a tool to confirm if someone is using AI, based on the results AND their intuition, I don’t know, I think that’s fairly solid. If a human decides to just scan everyone and everything and determine to boot them off their game based on those results…

Like. Okay? If I get banned that way, I don’t want to be on that game anyway? If I go to BMD to whine about it I’d blame staffing decisions. The issue is false negatives, not false positives. At least, that has been our experience running games within the last 5 years.

This thread is about AI in poses. I think detectors are appropriate in this particular environment where human writing really, really matters.

I TOTALLY understand the impulse to have clear, hard lines about this kind of thing. I don’t like arbitrary rules AT ALL. I worry about slippery slopes. But we’re here to write human written lines at each other. This is what it’s all about! This is the CORE of our hobby. If we don’t push back against this with EVERY weapon we have, we might end up RPing with robots. Which people have! It doesn’t feel great!

I’m confused. Is genAI a fun, harmless tool to be more efficient at creating art, or is it the catalyst for the race to the bottom, a “painful and violent” future for humanity? I feel like the original argument deviated a bit.

I do kinda’ feel like… as a hobby, we need a masterclass on how to take a hint through text.

For me, I look for enthusiasm and actual action. I give someone time to reach out to me. All it takes is a few instances of someone reaching out for me to understand that this person does indeed want to hang.

If I reach out and get a response, but it’s very lukewarm and they don’t actually follow up, or offer very little assistance in the way of actually planning a scene, I take the hint. Saves us both the trouble. I’ll ask twice, generally, and see if there’s any connection there, but no more.

If NO ONE engages with me after I put in some moderate effort to be fun and friendly on channels and offer to run scenes or Do A Thing, then I tend to write off the crowd as not a good fit for me and move on.

@Faraday I think these war stories are profoundly important to relay, because it’s pretty easy to discuss approaches in abstract, but when you’re down there in the trenches, you see how things unfold in ways that are difficult to predict, and you’re there in the crossfire feeling the heat of just how bad things can get.

That heat fades after a while and people may forget the details. We don’t need to wonder too much when there are actual cases. Players can have good experiences, but staff might be sitting there shell-shocked about it, and that should be a factor considering we generally need staff to run games.

Unexpected, unintended, unplanned embarrassment is generally why when I hold the idiot ball, I try to only hold it in front of people I trust, because otherwise someone’s gonna’ post a proclamation the next morning LORD EIRAN, LAYABOUT OF THE LAURENTS, SEEN BEING AN UNMARRIAGEABLE IDIOT.

But honestly, that’s rare! A lot of people are good sports.

Bad things happening, botched shit, generally A+, gimme. It’s just that social thing of oops my character looks like a fool even if he’s not actually supposed to be a fool about this.

I feel like I need to be clearer about my perspective, since there are indeed some viewpoints presented here that are along the lines of not my monkeys, not my circus, I’m just the player, which I totally get. As a player, you might get disgruntled, you might feel betrayed, you might not care at all, you might be literally using it to pose right back. My thoughts on all of this has been through the lens of a gamerunner, and just like I feel that any gamerunner tolerating and attempting to talk down someone that misbehaves right off the bat, a gamerunner that tolerates the usage here does their playerbase a disservice. The gamerunner might be okay with assholish behavior, and the gamerunner might be okay with allowing folk to use LLMs, but I personally do not think that is healthy for a game.

I could be wrong about that. I’m not some gamerunning titan that has run many many public games to completion. But I do think tacit permittance would lead to friction. I guess in the same way that some people expect async as a baseline and some people don’t and then there’s some… fun tension.

I don’t actually know what a game would look like, if their policy is “AI is fine” or even “AI is not fine but we’re not going to chase you down”. My speculation, to be clear, is that it would not work out well.

Aight so we can’t use tools to check, and we can’t use our guts to check, and we apparently can’t use both to check. What the fuck do we do, lie back and think of England? Hope for structural change in society? Assume the doofus that wrote like a chimpanzee 1 pose ago mustered the will and intelligence to get their shit together for this poetry contest?

@Third-Eye said in AI In Poses:

I increasingly want a game to be very clear on what its stance on AI is because players policing this themselves is a fucking nightmare.

Yeah I’d agree, this is something that staff should be on top of, one way or another. Any situation that dips into accusation drama would be a player problem and should be dealt with accordingly.

@Faraday There is a human that’s in charge of disinviting people to games. If the human uses their human brain to use a tool to confirm if someone is using AI, based on the results AND their intuition, I don’t know, I think that’s fairly solid. If a human decides to just scan everyone and everything and determine to boot them off their game based on those results…

Like. Okay? If I get banned that way, I don’t want to be on that game anyway? If I go to BMD to whine about it I’d blame staffing decisions. The issue is false negatives, not false positives. At least, that has been our experience running games within the last 5 years.

This thread is about AI in poses. I think detectors are appropriate in this particular environment where human writing really, really matters.

I TOTALLY understand the impulse to have clear, hard lines about this kind of thing. I don’t like arbitrary rules AT ALL. I worry about slippery slopes. But we’re here to write human written lines at each other. This is what it’s all about! This is the CORE of our hobby. If we don’t push back against this with EVERY weapon we have, we might end up RPing with robots. Which people have! It doesn’t feel great!

@labsunlimited Amusingly I’ve noticed an uptick in Luddite praise across the net lately. It’s cool to be a Luddite again.

Has ANYONE gotten banned, not suspected, BANNED, for use of LLM in poses/profiles/etc when they HAVEN’T used it?

This is the only thing that concerns me. I’m a FOOL and was tricked by at least 1 AI app that slipped through. Sorry to catzilla for having to RP with this ai person for a week I recall you lamenting.

@Jumpscare Walkable cities is a whole 'nother can of worms.

@Trashcan said in AI Megathread:

There were about 6 million auto accidents in 2022. If the self-driving car (extrapolated to the whole population) would have caused 5 million accidents, it would be better.

Lol man, I have to agree. I realize that we’re generally anti-generative AI in art/writing here but I’ll be honest, if the computer drives the car better than my anxious ass, I’ll ride along.

Just to summarize, and please correct me, Trashcan thinks that SOME amount of false positives (1%) using tools is acceptable in the fight against AI and Faraday thinks that ZERO amount of false positives using tools is acceptable in the fight against AI? Am I understanding that you think its better to trust your gut here, Faraday?