@bear_necessities said in RP Safari - Pacing Styles:

@Jumpscare said in RP Safari - Pacing Styles:

Ah, Gemstone IV, where people would abruptly leave the scene when their RPXP ran out.

Was that the one on AOL along with Modeus Operandi that went pay-to-play? Modeus Operandi was my first game, I miss it

I’m afraid I don’t know. A few years ago, a friend who is into MUDs told me to check it out for inspiration. It was so very strange and not in a fun way, haha.

Imagine you’re sitting down to dinner at a restaurant and having a great conversation with someone. You’re engaged and chatting for a good 30 minutes. But then he finishes his meal, says, “My time is up,” and immediately leaves in the middle of the discussion. Then someone else comes in, gets a meal, sits down in front of you, and expects you to start a new conversation from the beginning.

@MisterBoring said in RP Safari - Pacing Styles:

I’ve thought up a new pacing style:

Tedium game pacing. The MU will be connected to a generic incremental idle game (like Cookie Clicker), and each player will be given a number of pose tokens. Each pose will cost a number of tokens based on length, and if you run out of tokens, you must play the idle game to generate more tokens, which can also be spent to make the idle game work faster. Scenes will progress at a speed decided by the various players progression in the idle game generating the tokens.

Ah, Gemstone IV, where people would abruptly leave the scene when their RPXP ran out.

@bear_necessities said in RP Safari - Pacing Styles:

@Jumpscare if you’re doing that all in 4 poses, how are you reacting to the other person?

Each pose follows the Acknowledge-Respond-Prompt method. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear enough. I’ll add it to my previous post.

For async (and some live scenes), I try to aim for RP that ends after 4 posts. Granted, these posts can be 1,000 words long, but my goal is 4 posts, following the Acknowledge-Respond-Prompt method.

1. Intro
2. Conflict
3. Solution
4. Resolution

That is:

1. Intro - The pose in, the situation, the stakes, what are we doing here and how are we doing it. Why is the rum gone?
2. Conflict - The action, the gossip, the disagreement, the demand, the spectacle. Give me the rum.
3. Solution - The unwinding, the disaster, the success, the kowtow, the agreement, the explosion. I got stabbed trying to steal the rum.
4. Resolution - The tip of the hat, the running away crying, the reveling of having $20 from robbing the 7-11, the licking of the wounds, the smouldering heap. I resolve to never try to steal rum from a 7-11 again, because it turns out they don’t have any.

It doesn’t work for all scenes, but it’s great for social scenes and 7-11 robbery scenes.

@KarmaBum

That’s perfectly understandable! And thanks for expounding, it really helps me to understand where Silent Heaven stands in the MU ecosystem, haha.

Here are some responses to your points. Don’t worry, I’m not trying to convince you to play. I’m just providing clarifications.

1- I understand the frustration with mobile closing the connection the instant you tab out. I’ve recently learned about split screen being a feature for Android phones to help with web connections. It’s still not ideal, but maybe someone reading this doesn’t know about split screen and could benefit from it. (Tap the button that lets you switch apps, then tap the icon at the top, and choose “Split Screen.”)

2- The Discord server is absolutely not necessary. It’s just for OOC chatter. I’ve seen a number of issues for when public OOC is on the same medium as IC, involving people blurring the lines between the two. And for a game like Silent Heaven that could carry higher bleed than usual, I felt it prudent to separate the two. Everything else, such as event scheduling and notifications about OOC updates, are available in-game.

3- I worked hard on making an intro sequence that sets the tone while teaching the most necessary commands, so there are no worries there, haha. The first 30 minutes of any new player’s experience are the most important minutes, because those are when they’re most likely to bail if they can’t figure something out.

4- I fully understand that the “crunchiness” of the game mechanics is a dealbreaker. I did my best to make it support RP, not supplant it. For example, the automated NPC responses are to help when PCs or Storytellers aren’t available, with teaching commands, providing basic setting information, and suggesting safe places to explore. While it helps with some of the cognitive offload of initiating new players into a setting, as well as standardizing rules around certain aspects of the game, it is ultimately gamier, and I accept that that reduces freedom.

Thank you again for responding!

@KarmaBum said in MU Peeves Thread:

@Jumpscare Thanks, the offer is very much appreciated.

The theme/setting/whatever always seemed exactly up my alley, and it’s one of those things I’m sure I’d enjoy if I took the time to get into it. But Evennia and me just don’t jive.

Thank you! If I may be curious, what about Evennia don’t you jive with? If it’s about the syntax, I’ve removed a lot of the default commands and made them much more user-friendly. For example, there’s none of that desc/brains=“Very smart.” syntax. Now you just type desc, choose the thing you want to edit, and start typing. Much of the game follows the principle of “just start typing; it’ll likely know what you want to do.”

@KarmaBum said in MU Peeves Thread:

I don’t feel like I’m missing anything right now. If another game like Horror or LA came along, where every scene felt like it was building toward a comprehensive story, I’d absolutely be down to clown.

I’ve been having a blast running Silent Heaven for nearly 3 years. The players constantly surprise me with the things they come up with. I don’t know if I ever played with you (I missed out on Horror and I was too busy with SH to play LA). But I’ve heard you’re a legendary player, and you’re welcome to play!

You may have checked it out in the past. I know there were a few people who weren’t a fan of the spatially-consistent grid, nor the real-time public RP. I admittedly cribbed from Arx on that matter, haha. So, no worries if it’s not your thing.

@Cobalt said in Tips for GMs:

@bear_necessities said in Tips for GMs:

@KDraygo said in Tips for GMs:

Try to keep the scene moving,

Please. Please keep things moving. I’ve been in GM’d scenes where we haven’t even finished “posing in” and have already hit the 1 hour mark.

I know this is a few days ago, but this irks me so bad. It is why in the last few years that I was GMing for people, I instituted a rule that if you had not posed after 5-10 minutes when it was your run and not responded OOC your turn would be skipped.

But scenes moving so slowly that I’d lose all focus on them, is a big reason why I stopped GMing and RPing altogether.

To help with that, I try to make sure the beginning of a major event is “on rails,” like a guided tour. That is, everyone has 10 - 15 minutes to post before the next thing happens (NPC does a thing, everyone move to the next room, etc.). Everyone sticks together until the beginning is finished, and then you’re set free to go wherever you’d like, RP about the situation, take actions, etc.

Having a beginning prepared in advance helps to strike a balance between player agency and moving things along.

Unrelated: if someone wants to do something that’s beyond what you’re capable of handling, such as using everyday household objects to make war crime weapons in your My Little Pony game, you’re allowed to say, “I’m sorry, we don’t have support for handling that type of RP in this game. It’s outside the scope of the game’s theme.”

Somewhat related: Be prepared for mediating players’ interpersonal issues in a calm and helpful manner. That includes banning, if necessary. Unless you have a positive reputation from past games, you need to understand that players are usually entering your game with zero trust of staff. The odds that a player has been burned by staff in the past is very high. So be keenly aware that you are the one who needs to earn their trust. Not the other way around.

Also unrelated: Give your players things to do in their downtime. PRPs, RP about current events, take actions leading up to the next event, and optional scenes that produce tangible results are great for player engagement. Things like, “Make some clothes for the donation bin; we’re low on shoes,” or “The cows can be milked once a month to improve our town’s reputation,” or “The camp needs 20 pounds of wood to repair structures and 20 pounds of boar meat to survive the month in a healthy state,” can motivate players to do optional scenes in between major events.

And it helps to fill in the four levels of player engagement:

Metaplot: The reason why everything is happening. You’ll barely touch this, but it’s important to write down. You can drop little lore nuggets at the end of every chapter as a reward, but your players won’t directly interact with the metaplot.

Chapter / season plot: These are the major plots that take months to resolve. They’re the backdrop to what’s happening in the story right now. These are the ones that are resolved over the course of multiple major scenes, as well as player actions over time. When a chapter plot resolves, it should usually cause a major dynamic shift in how the players RP, and what they RP about. For example, the PCs successfully opened the door to Twinkle Town, and now scenes are possible there, but it’s a very dangerous place to explore. The next season may be about making Twinkle Town a safe place to live as their homes on the Tiny Islands collapse.

Episodic plot: Your “monster of the week” plot. These are the small steps forward in the Chapter Plot. They could also be unrelated to the chapter plot, too. Not everything that happens needs to end with a TV displaying Moriarty’s laughing face.

Day-to-day plots: These are the things your players will be doing during their downtime, which I explained above. This is the most common type of RP that happens, so it’s really important to facilitate it however the players wish. They should be instantly accessible, either through guidelines or through automation (pre-written rules about rolling dice, adding code if that’s an option, etc.).

Write down the metaplot, at least 3 chapter plots, at least 3 episodic plots per chapter, and at least 5 day-to-day plots. Now you’ve got a plan for keeping your players engaged for at least a year.

Building a game is the easy part. Keeping it going for years is the real challenge.

And on that note, it’s okay to have an ending in mind! You don’t have to run your game forever. A satisfying conclusion will be far more memorable than a game that just fizzles out due to lack of engagement. And, as a counter-point, it’s also okay to say that the game isn’t going in a direction you can handle, and wrap it up for the players. Sometimes experiments don’t work out, and that’s okay.

I eventually caved to pressure and opened a Patreon for Silent Heaven. The support currently pays for about 80% of the monthly server costs. Supporting confers no in-game bonuses, and is only done out of the goodness of one’s heart and budget.

If there’s ever an overage, I’ve promised to use the excess money for nice things for the game, such as art commissions.

@howyadoin said in Bad Stuff Happening IC:

@MisterBoring Silent Heaven already exists

ETA: joke

You joke, but Silent Heaven players will 100% sign up for all of that and have a great time. The first event I ran that was tagged “risk of character death” had 31 characters sign up for it. I’m impressed by their ability to find brief moments of IC fun, relief and happiness for their characters, even in the direst situations.

I want bad stuff to happen sooner rather than later, to see how the staff and community make it fun, because that’s going to be a great way to know whether or not the game is right for me.

@Tez said in AI In Poses:

I saw a lot of people going ‘oh no, people might think I’m AI’ on the other thread but no examples of anyone actually getting incorrectly flagged. I think these are strawmen. Have we seen it happen?

I put some of my writing for room descs into an AI detector. Almost every one was marked as AI. Then I tried some from a former builder who I know was using AI (but I hadn’t honed my personal detection methods well enough to spot it, and we’ve since removed all of her descs). And it came back as not AI. This was back in early 2024, though, so maybe detection methods have improved in almost 2 years.

Some things I’ve noticed about LLMs is that they can never create entertaining details. And sometimes it’ll generalize by saying there are a bunch of the thing, or that its qualities are very quality. It spends a lot of time saying nothing of value, while giving the appearance of value. It’s so afraid to offend that it never takes risks. Its prose is cowardly, milquetoast, and superficial. It’s simultaneously compositionally professional and media-illiterate. And it passes those traits on to the people who use it.

@Trashcan said in AI Megathread:

There were about 6 million auto accidents in 2022. If the self-driving car (extrapolated to the whole population) would have caused 5 million accidents, it would be better.

Making cities walkable would be far better than throwing more money into the abyss that cities become when they’re overrun by self-driving cars.

@Yam I stumbled on an old chat where I tried to help someone fit in and I grew too exhausted to continue helping. The names have been changed to the names of Neopets I’ve never heard of before today.

PEOPHIN played a character named VANDAGYRE. Here are some of VANDAGYRE’s poses, for reference.

• VANDAGYRE coughs into his fist as he glances around, picking his pointer finger into his ear.

• VANDAGYRE ,despite this, coughs into his hand once more, his yellow teeth being quite brazingly shown as he glances around awkwardly, “IS JUST MAYBE BUFFER, BECAUSE IS NOT KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY SAY IS THINGS.”

• VANDAGYRE stares at the person, his dull eyes staring into the person’s chest as he grins, his jagged, stained teeth showing as he shouts loudly, “ME VANDA. PLACE NOT MAKE SENSE. HEAD HURT.”

• VANDAGYRE looks at the person as he stares at them with an empty face, his voice still booming loudly, “IS HAVING BRAIN INJURY. HAVING HARD TIME CONTROLLING IMPULSES. IS EMBRACE INSTEAD OF TRY TO FIGHT IT. REALLY NOT BIG DEAL, VANDA NOT WANT TO MONOLOUGE ABOUT INNER HEAD BULLSHITTERY.”

• ~VANDAGYRE~ (IS SOMEBODY SAY OILY WRESTLING?)

• ~VANDAGYRE~ (VANDA LIKE THROW TINY PEOPLE IS MAKE FEEL WHOLE AGAIN.)

• ~VANDAGYRE~ (VANDA LIKE YOU IS. WILL THROW YOU ANYTIME IS FOR FREE, NO CHAGHE.)

Here’s the OOC conversation. It’s uncut aside from one section I removed for brevity and privacy, where PEOPHIN asked about the behavior of another banned player.

PEOPHIN
Hey, sorry to message-- I’ll just make this as short as I can because I don’t want to bother to much (about silent heaven).

I don’t know if it was you or someone else, but I was playing as a character that was portrayed as dumb and loud, I then had a staff reach out to me saying that I was being to ditruptive. When I tried questioning as to how my character was being disruptive in a manner that was negatively impacting other players, I didn’t recieve an answer aside from “people complained”.

I don’t see what I did being against the rules anywhere, and I didn’t recieve any explanation when I tried to probe as to exactly why. I did things like talk in all caps and generally be big and dumb with his statements, but I feel it was at least a little unfair that I was literally told to stop without being given any additional information when I tried asking.

Sorry to bother. I can give more information if you want. If you don’t want to respond that is compeltely fine and I understand. It just overall does not sit right in my tummy and I feel I had a good, humerous character going, and any possible development I could have had was completely wiped away without a thought. (I don’t normally like talking about these things, I usually just move on if it ever happens, but it really didn’t sit right with me. Again, sorry to bother.)

JUMPSCARE
Hi there!

I’ve looked into this.

Your behavior as VANDAGYRE was described as trolling, over the top, and especially hard to RP with, as well as disruptive over the winds.

When asked to tone it down or refine the character, you responded with, “If what I’m not doing right now is not okay I’d prefer to just make a new character if that’s alright. His whole gimmick is to be loud and disruptive.”

This preference was honored. VANDAGYRE was stored, and you were notified that you were allowed to create a new character.

PEOPHIN
Can you tell me how it was supposed to be trolling or hard to rp with?

I tried asking about it, because the only thing I agree with was that is the over the top (intentionally).

and just to be clear, I was specifically only told to “be less distruptive”, and I didn’t receive any explanation as to what that meant. When he was talking over the winds, he was genuinally expressing interest in something he heard, and complimenting somebody. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what is meant by disruptive, because at least over the winds, he was just talking how he talks (I did use him in all caps, but again that is intentional, and if that was the issue of using it specifically in winds, it wasn’t mentioned to me at all specifically).

I had numerous interactions that felt pretty filled out-- I took his over-the-top nature and bounced off of other characters, etc.

The way I see it-- the character isn’t troll, but he is meant to be comedic and not taken seriously. I’m just confused, because it seems like playing a character that is meant to not be taken seriously isn’t allowed-- I made strides to make sure that he wasnt disruptive when talking to people, he didn’t just blab on in the winds, etc. I feel like there’s a big misrepresentation of his actions and I’d appreciate it if it were adressed, if possible. This whole situation, as a new player to the game, just feels like its meant to make me want to leave because it feels like I was bullied out of what could be a good and fun character concept.

JUMPSCARE
I can’t tell you how; I’m just relaying how players who played with your character felt. Hopefully you’ll be able to reflect on that. You’ve shown here that you understand the ways that you were disruptive and over the top.

Ultimately, that iteration of VANDAGYRE was not a good fit for Silent Heaven.

PEOPHIN
It feels, very unfair though, considering I put effort in and have tried telling you I think that a lot of those things (not all) are misunderstandings. Are there not characters in Silent Heaven that are humerous and made to be jokes but took time for people to get used to? The way I see it, people saw a humerous character that was over the top, immedietly thought it was a troll, and complained. It feels unfair that staff reached out to me instead of probing further or to find solutions, it really just feels like people are trying to chase away a new player here.

I’m sure there are over the top or disruptive characters that exist, so I am confused why this specifically is not being allowed. And for people that felt that is was trolling, I’d like to itterate that I actually put noticeable effort into scenes and his mannerisms-- I had details that most trolls would not, etc.

JUMPSCARE
There are not over-the-top or disruptive characters.

You’ve been given multiple options. But it feels like you’re rejecting all of them. What do you specifically want?

PEOPHIN
It feels like the only true option I’ve been given is “make a new character”. When I keep asking about being less disruptive, I’m not getting a definitive answer on what exactly that means, so I am confused, admittingly.

I would prefer to play a dumb (likely brain damaged) and loud character who rushes headfirst into things, who is obnoxious and meant from a OOC perspective to be taken as a joke, while still having serious moments as it happens in rp. Is there a way for that to be okay?

There’s things I can obviously change like, conveying loudness in ways that isnt talking in all caps, not using all caps over winds, etc. But At least for the main parts (being obnoxious, loud, etc), I’d just like to know if playing a character like that is possible.

JUMPSCARE
The option to refine VANDAGYRE was a true option also! Hence why I said “that iteration of VANDAGYRE” was not a good fit for Silent Heaven.

I try to say exactly what I mean so that there’s no confusion from implied meanings. Such as the above.

Your suggestions are all fine; you simply have to remember that what makes a character like that good is if you’re playing it in a way that’s fun for the other players and not frustrating. It means putting a lot more emphasis in writing for the other players than for yourself.

At this point, I’d suggest remaking with a character who’s a little more down-to-earth. More emphasis on prose instead of trolly emotes. Then you can revisit VANDAGYRE after you’ve played a character and have a good feel for the vibes here.

PEOPHIN
I’m glad you’re saying that part about the options now, but at least at the time, I basically had my character boxed and when I tried talking out solutions, I couldn’t @gm, and the person that moved me left my room, so any potential to change things there and make it simple felt like it just… got halted.

I still want to make a character with those traits that I listed, is that possible? What I don’t understand about the emote comment, is that he had plenty of times where he was simply doing things like putting his hand on someone to facilitate a greeting, would make facial expressions to show how he feels, etc, which I feel are not trolly emotes at all and showed the character is fine.

And for a BIG example to just be clear of why I think VANDAGYRE was an example of writing for other characters despite his qualities: there was a scene where someone asked about his yelling, and instead of going into a long monolouge about his upbringing, I decided to make it fit his character more by him literally saying he dosen’t want sit there and blab to people in a monolouge, which I felt really made it clear that the focus was still about making a good story, not to just have a silly gimmick character and let it be just that.

I don’t know if you read most of my emotes, but I included things that made it clear he was defintely not trolly, such as him reacting when someone praised him (in detail), how he processes numerous people, how he deals with being told things, etc.

And also, sorry to draw this out so much. I just want to know if with those qualities I listed, making a character like that is possible. I am like, 90% sure the traits I listed would actually be fun to interact with, given that most characters are by nature serious, and having a character to rely on that is honest, yet not all mentally there can make for a good concept to latch to.

I’d like to add that normally I play my cutesey, happy characters, but I’d like to make this work if possible

JUMPSCARE
I appreciate you writing all of that out.

At this time, you may create a down-to-earth character. If you don’t want to, you don’t have to.

I need to attend to other players now. Thank you.

PEOPHIN
Damn, that hurts. I wish you would just let me try to make it work and show you it can be an overall benefit, but alright.

This feels, really shitty, especially considering I’m a new player, but I understand you got other people to deal with, I just hope you can return to this when you have time.

PEOPHIN, 2 days later
Hey, if it’s not to much to ask, could you have someone take my character out of the UFO room or whatever it’s called? I’d like to run with it and just fix some of the things we talked about if that’s alright, please

JUMPSCARE
Hi there! Give me a bit and I’ll be able to do that.

PEOPHIN
Thank you very much , also sorry to bother so much about it.
I think people will like it and it’ll be fun, they’ve just gotta give it a chance before judging

And just to be clear-- I guess I’d be fine making a different character, but I really want to make like a goofy, funny one that can get a laugh out of myself and people. I see that idea with VANDAGYRE, however I don’t really know a lot about the disquise mechanic, but I’m thinking I could just make a character with that and have them do wacky stuff too, again I’m just not sure because I’m new and reading HELP only helps me so much.

My only issue, is I don’t want to run VANDAGYRE, then get admin bonked and told to change without someone actually hearing me out and having a discussion. I don’t like having opinions stuffed down my throat and being forced or told to change something that I think is unfair without a proper, full discussion.

JUMPSCARE
I’m always amenable to hearing people out. It doesn’t always mean that I’ll accept it, because my interests are solely in line with protecting the community from grief.

I will always choose to run a smaller game with minimized grief than a larger one with uncontrolled grief. Please keep that in mind as you return to the game.

VANDAGYRE is back in his private room. Please rewrite his backstory, and also tone down his goofiness. Focus on roleplaying and integrating into the world instead of pulling people out of it with the tonal shift of VANDAGYRE’s previous appearance.

PEOPHIN
Right-- would it be okay if you could tell me what is wrong with running a goofy character in a serious setting? I’m sure that it’s possible to integrate into the world even with a goofy character as long as it’s done properly, is that not okay here? I have heard characters referencing other people that are similar to VANDAGYRE in acting, so I’m struggling to see the problem if it’s done right.

Because I can assure you, I think it is quite easy to run a character that is meant to be goofy, but still have serious, realistic actions with that character that come from their worldview and experiences. I can, quite easily run a goofy character that is not griefing and still focuses on roleplaying and integrating into the world, is that not okay?

I had good interactions with a character named OGRIN, if you really think that the type of character I’m trying to run is problemematic you could just ask them, because I think we had some actual good roleplay that showed VANDAGYRE can integrate into roleplay just fine despite his goofy, not-so-there nature.

JUMPSCARE
OGRIN was one of the ones who expressed that VANDAGYRE needed a nudge in the right direction.

It’s very possible that Silent Heaven just isn’t the right game for you, and there’ll be another game that’ll better cater to the style of RP you enjoy.

PEOPHIN
I agree with that sentiment, he needs a change in the right direction. But you are, basically telling me that running a goofy character is not allowed, and I’m curious as to why.

I’m fine with changing parts of him-- like making it more refined. After all, it was my first day there so obviously there’s going to be some things to work out, like some of the things I mentioned that we mutually agreed should be changed.

What is wrong with running a goofy character in this setting if done properly? I noticed other characters referencing a name of someone similar to my own goofy character to compare, so surely there are some that are considered goofy already. Instead of refining the goofiness to make it work, why are you trying to get me to change it completely?

Is the idea of a mentally deranged, dumb, snappy, and happy character something that isn’t generally allowed here, even if done correctly?

If that’s not what you see with him right now that’s fine, but that is the intent, of course the first time implementing it is gonna need polishing

JUMPSCARE
I’m sorry. I feel like this conversation is taking up yet more of my time with no progress forward. I’ve given you more than enough guidance, and I’ve tried in many ways to convey that that’s not a good character concept for a first character. I’m no longer continuing with this back-and-forth.

At this point, I’m storing VANDAGYRE again and disinviting you from Silent Heaven.

Whenever someone launches a new game, I’m always open to sharing my banlist of sex pests and nazis with the game runner.

Conversely, I’m also open to vouching for great players.

@Wizz said in Warma-Sheen:

@hellfrog said in Warma-Sheen:

this guy has more than once joined a game just to cheat, right out of the gate, with a side of negging the game runner from the fake alt for absolutely no reason. ‘your game sux, no one has reached out or been nice to me except Me’

not to mention some of his absolutely rancid takes here and back on MSB, most of which was consistently dismissing victims of harassment and insulting people trying to support them.

sincerely sorry to the people who came to his defense over the Empire thing, I don’t think it makes anything y’all were saying in general less valid, but the dude is a tool and didn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for the clarification.

The odd thing is that I didn’t read any hostility in Warma Sheen’s messages. And if I did, is there anything wrong with responding with something like this?

“I appreciate you pointing out the inaccuracy. But I don’t appreciate the negativity it was phrased with. Please keep this in mind for the future. Thanks.”

Can someone please clue me in? I know Warma Sheen has some history, but to a request like that, I’d say something like, “I’m focusing on finishing up plot X. But looking at the request, I don’t think we have support for that kind of RP, unfortunately. Try another angle aside from a complete wealth transferral (however temporary). Sounds good?”

What am I missing?

I’ve updated the list with the ones you all remembered the names of, haha.

From discussion on another thread, I’m now curious which US states have never had a MU* with them as their primary location. Here’s what I found from a cursory search.

California - Liberation
Colorado - Sheltering Skies, Shadowrin Denver
Louisiana - Black Bayou
New Mexico - Masquerade
Virginia - Keys
Washington - GarouMUSH