@Tapewyrm

I can only speak for myself and a select few like-minded players, but here’s my perspective on this topic: While I genuinely enjoy private roleplay and developing personal storylines with my RP partners, I’m certainly not opposed to staff-run plots. They add depth and context to the world we’re playing in—I just don’t require them as my primary source of enjoyment.

Being a storyteller and plot-runner is undoubtedly a thankless job, which is why I try to make staff members’ lives easier when possible. My expectations are actually quite modest: run perhaps one scene a week to keep the world moving forward, and I’m perfectly content! I’ll happily fill in the other days with my own character-driven stories alongside my RP partners.

In my experience, most active and engaged players share this mindset. What I’ve consistently observed over years of roleplaying is that the very people who complain “there’s nothing to do” on a game are typically the same ones who rarely attend planned scenes when they are offered. They’re waiting for entertainment rather than creating it.

I believe there’s a productive middle ground here. Setting reasonable guidelines for sandbox RP so players don’t inadvertently break ongoing plots seems entirely fair. This doesn’t have to be an either/or situation. If you provide people with the tools and framework to tell their own stories—including clear boundaries about what limits they must respect—I strongly believe those same players will show up for staff-run scenes as well, appreciating the broader context they provide.

The most successful RP environments I’ve experienced have this balance: staff who create a vibrant, evolving world with occasional significant events, and players who feel empowered to develop their own stories within that framework. Neither needs to exclude the other, and both contribute to a richer overall experience.

@Jennkryst If it wasn’t for SNW, I’d say Lower Decks was the best Trek out there since TNG to be honest. It is weird because it’s a cartoon and I’m not sure on its continuity but it is really good. Not hating on Lower Decks at all.

@RedRocket I love both Evil and Strange New Worlds. I’m a huge Trekkie and, for me, SNW the best Trek they’ve put out since TNG.

I know I might be in the minority, but I genuinely enjoy games that focus primarily on social interactions and “bar RP.” In fact, I’ve participated in private games where that was the main activity, and found them incredibly fulfilling.

Don’t misunderstand—I appreciate well-crafted plots and would certainly join global events. However, my personal focus tends toward developing character relationships and running private storylines with my RP partners. For me, having the tools and space to tell these intimate stories matters more than participating in numerous public scenes or global plot arcs.

I find the most enjoyment in those smaller moments between characters: the conversations that reveal backstories, the gradual building of trust, and the organic development of relationships (whether friendly, romantic, or antagonistic). These interactions often create the most memorable RP experiences for me.

I often struggle on “older” games because there just aren’t many ways for new players to find RP with the established crowd. Cliques have formed, RP circles have popped up, storylines are already rolling…and I find myself stuck trying to break in. I’ll make a character, maybe do one or two random “coffee shop scenes,” and then just stop logging in because nothing clicks.

I really dig games that give newbies a natural in with older, more established characters. Star Trek works great (getting assigned to a ship, base, or Starfleet Academy), school-based games too (Hero High, Supernatural University, etc.), and super-hero games (with their teams or those built-in relationships between FCs we can lean on).

I obviously don’t speak for all new players, but I don’t think I’m some special snowflake here. I bet tons of new players hit these same walls. Maybe this is why so many MUSHes fizzle out after a few months - they don’t solve the “new player integration” problem.

@MisterBoring IMO, a successful MUSH is one where people had fun. I don’t think you can measure success by time alone. I’ve been on games that languished for years with little to no activity - very little fun was had. I’ve also been on others that only lasted a few weeks, but we all had a blast and still talk about RP from those games to this day. I’d say those shorter games were actually more successful.

@Faraday For me, it combines aspects of several mediums into one. Specifically, I’m referring to Ares though most of this applies to other MUSH/X platforms.

1. A centralized, persistent world where characters and RP are organized in one place, making it easy to find people and opportunities.

2. Ways to create both public and private scenes that can later be easily shared and logged - keeping track of all the collaborative storytelling.

3. Character profile pages with lots of character information including demographics, backgrounds, sheets, and galleries - all connected to the game world.

4. Integrated dice rolls for games that use RPG systems, without breaking the flow.

5. Easy integration with Discord for OOC communication while keeping IC stuff in the MUSH.

6. Being able to save RP logs to build world and character history.

Those are the big reasons why I prefer MU*s to other forms of online RP. I’ve tried forum RP and discord RP extensively and it just doesn’t hit the same for me. There’s something special about logging into a persistent world where everything you need for good roleplay exists in one connected space.

@MisterBoring I created more Advantages, Drawbacks, and supernatural abilities. Other than that, not much. In my opinion, almost any system can work on a MUSH under the right circumstances.

I went with Stranger Stuff with the following ideas in mind:

1. Minimal advancement. Players aren’t hoarding XP and slowly (or not so slowly) growing their character sheet to super-heroic proportions. Your character is what it is when you create it. Over time, as RP dictates, you can apply for changes to your sheet, but there’s not really any advancement.

As an aside, this is one of the things I really enjoy about the Star Trek RPG. You’re not gunning for advancement and XP. Your character is your character, fully formed and at the peak of their abilities. Changes that do happen are often lateral instead of upwards.

2. I wanted something that you could use without even thinking about numbers. One of the cool things about Stranger Stuff is that it’s trait-based, so a character can look something like “A local fisherman who is Athletic, Connected, Insightful, and has a Bad Back.” There are mechanical systems behind all of those traits but, even without using them, this character sheet tells you a lot about a character.

3. Fast paced. The system is fast-paced for those who choose to rely on it. There aren’t a ton of mechanics to learn or crunch to slow RP down.

And that’s it really. I wanted a system that could support RP without getting in the way of it but also one that had enough heft to be meaningful when people did want to use it. Hope that helps answer your question!

I wanted to share an update on the game I’ve been working on. After much consideration, I’ve made some significant changes to the original concept.

While developing the Storypath system was enjoyable, it ultimately proved too ambitious. I was concerned about the learning curve for new players since, despite having familiar mechanics, everything else was homebrewed. This would have required everyone to learn an entirely new system.

Several other factors influenced my decision to pivot:

• I wasn’t confident I could properly support the original setting
• I had reservations about maintaining the WoD-lite theme long-term

The game has transformed considerably:

• The setting is now Misty Harbor, a fictional coastal town in Maine that I feel more comfortable developing
• I’ve shifted to a 1980s timeframe, drawing inspiration from properties like Stranger Things
• The theme leans more toward horror than WoD-gothic soap opera (though those elements are still present in some ways)
• I’ve adopted the Stranger Stuff system, which is simpler but very effective and narrative-focused—ideal for a MUSH environment, in my opinion

I’m still uncertain whether I’ll make the game publicly available. Horror isn’t my usual genre (I typically run Star Trek or superhero games), but the project does exist with a small player base. For now, I’m considering an invite-only approach.

For those who expressed interest in my original concept, I wanted to provide this update. If you’re curious about the new direction, feel free to message me directly or let me know if you’d like me to start a new thread about it.

Thanks for your support!

@Faraday I think I get what you’re saying and I agree with that perspective. Rolls should not be a crutch to make up for not being able to play a concept properly. They can help drive RP and perhaps point you in directions you hadn’t considered, but they definitely can’t make fundamentally poor roleplay enjoyable.

And yes, someone shouldn’t be able to play a character poorly but then fall back on “But my +roll says yes” as if that overrides everything else. There’s definitely some murky water where playing poorly because someone doesn’t care (and isn’t even trying) crosses over with someone who is genuinely doing their best to play the concept well but might need some mechanical support.

I think the ideal is when dice mechanics enhance good-faith roleplay efforts rather than replacing them. A player genuinely trying to portray a brilliant tactician might benefit from dice mechanics that help bridge the gap, while someone just going through the motions and expecting the dice to do all the heavy lifting is missing the point of collaborative storytelling.

@Faraday Well, I don’t think I said that dice rolls should be the narrative. I don’t think I ever even implied it. I said “The mechanics should serve the narrative, not strangle it.”

I think it’s similar to saying, “You want to play a strong character? Show proof you’re that strong in real life.” These games are fantasy, not reality. We’re playing characters that are often better than ourselves in many ways.

While I don’t think it’s anyone’s “job” to do anything except have fun, I don’t see an issue with collaborating on plot development when it creates enjoyable stories. If someone wants their character to break into my character’s vault, I’m happy to brainstorm ideas with them if the story sounds fun. I agree the concept should come before the rolls - dice should serve the story, not create it from nothing.

I also don’t disagree about expecting a certain level of competency and knowledge of the theme and setting. If someone is consistently playing against theme, tone, and setting, there are definitely larger issues than whether they succeed at Intelligence or Charisma rolls.

That said, dice mechanics can enhance and drive RP in various ways. Maybe two players aren’t interested in RPing out the entire heist but want to explore the aftermath - they could resolve the execution with a roll or two to determine how smoothly things went. Or they might choose to RP it without any rolls at all. The important thing is having fun and telling good stories together.

Obviously, these are just my thoughts and opinions. There’s no one-size-fits-all answer to questions like these. Personally, I just like using dice mechanics to help bridge the gap between what we’re capable of and what our characters are capable of - not to replace storytelling, but to enhance it.

@Gashlycrumb said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:

I think handling intrigue with dice-mechanics is kind of a problem. Maybe not a big one, depending on your player base. But you know how you always get that one person who keeps going, “My character has a 20 charisma, love me!” while behaving in very uncharismatic ways. There’s also somebody out there who will go, “Make my dumbass scheme work as if I’m the genius my sheet says I am!” It can be a heck of a lot of work to translate dice-throws of this nature into narrative.

This is exactly why I prefer dice mechanics for intrigue when possible. Without them, you risk telling players “Sorry, you can’t play a charismatic character because you’re not charismatic in real life” or “Your character can’t pull off that brilliant scheme because you’re not smart enough to devise it.” Even worse is hitting that wall of “That would never work on my character” with nothing backing it up except “Because I say so.”

I’m all about cooperative storytelling, and ultimately “because I say so” is valid in many contexts. But dice add that perfect element of uncertainty that keeps things interesting and levels the playing field. And when a certain amount of hand waving needs to enter the equation to make things happen—if it creates an overall better story—then I’m absolutely all for it. The mechanics should serve the narrative, not strangle it. When these systems are in place, you definitely need zero tolerance for BS and shenanigans. That said, anyone trying to game these systems at the expense of other players’ fun probably isn’t someone you want on your game anyway. The goal is always a compelling story where everyone feels their character can meaningfully participate, regardless of the player’s real-world skills.

Also, with games like this, it’s easy to forget that the shows we’re basing them on have a writers’ room full of people who spend weeks or months crafting these stories, plots, and dialogue. When we RP them, we’re coming up with stuff off the cuff. I think a certain amount of leeway should be expected and happily given. It’s a lot to expect the average gamer to come up with a professional writers’ room worth of quality material on the fly in the few minutes they have to craft a pose. Dice mechanics can bridge that gap between our improvised efforts and the polished narratives we’re trying to emulate.

For me, I think a L&L game should have some/most of the following:

1. Setting: To me it should be in a historical or fantasy versions of aristocratic societies inspired by European nobility structures from medieval to Victorian eras.

2. Focus on social dynamics: I think the game should emphasize social interaction, political maneuvering, romantic entanglements, and status competition.

3. Hierarchical character structure: Players typically take on roles within a clearly defined social hierarchy, from monarchs and high nobility down to lesser gentry.

4. Intrigue mechanics: Mechanics for reputation, scandal, alliances, marriages, and social influence rather than traditional combat stats.

5. Events and gatherings: Social events like balls, garden parties, hunts, and court sessions serve as central settings for roleplaying interactions.

6. Character development: Character growth typically revolves around gaining titles, wealth, alliances, and social standing rather than combat abilities.

Back to games we want but won’t see…

Street Fighter / Mortal Kombat: I think both actually have themes you could build a MU around. Street Fighter is almost superheroics meets espionage while Mortal Kombat could be modern fantasy.

TMNT: One of my favorite things from my youth. I loved playing the old RPG and would love to play on a MU set in the TMNT universe.

Transformers: I know there are one or two out there but I find their themes confusing. I’d like a simple G1 Transformers game set on Earth and maybe Cybertron. Perhaps with a plot working up to the original 1986 movie(Unicron).

I didn’t want to derail the other thread, but I thought there was a lot of good discussion going on regarding the Lords and Ladies games so I thought I’d create a thread just for that.

The points I found most interesting included:

1. Running a more personal game
2. Having a system in place for political plots and intrigue
3. Ensuring there are interesting consequences for “losing” in intrigues.
4. Creating some sort of a roster or temporary character pool for things like intrigue and other plots.

What might also work is finding out what political plots players want to explore with their characters, then collaborating with them to create some NPC/roster characters specifically for those storylines. You could then advertise for temporary players to take over these characters for the duration of the plot. This way, Player A gets their political intrigue storyline, while Player B gets to drive a character like they stole it—engaging in roleplay they might not otherwise try with a character they were more personally invested in.

@Ominous When I ponder my Game of Thrones game, I think about this exact challenge. To make politics work, I think it boils down to needing one of two things:

1: Players who are willing to have characters that “lose” in these political games and who’ll accept consequences. It should still lead to engaging and imaginative RP but, in my experience, most people just want to “win” and don’t like being on the other side.

2: Having staff or players willing to temp NPCs to act in those losing spots or to suffer the consequences of actions.

You’d also need staff keeping an eye out for players who might take advantage of a game that allows political maneuvering. There’d need to be a zero tolerance policy for using politics to pressure people into RP they don’t want to participate in.

I don’t think these are reasons not to incorporate politics into the game—they’re just hurdles that would need to be overcome. I actually think it could be very rewarding if done right.

@Gashlycrumb If I ever did it, it’d probably follow along the same route. More personal, localized stories.

@Gashlycrumb said in Games we want, but will almost certainly never have:

@Artemis … And L&L is probably among the easiest themes to run.

See, the idea of running a Lords & Ladies game is very intimidating. I think I could open a superhero or modern horror game tomorrow and be fairly confident in running plots, helping players, and all that. But when I think about opening an L&L game? I get all anxious.

And it’s too bad because I’d love to see a Game of Thrones game. The two people I RP with most would also love it. I just find it all very intimidating - probably mostly because I’d be doing all the staffing work by myself, and that’s a lot to handle.

I kind of like “mash up” games where you combine two not always similar themes. One of the coolest games I ever played on was X-Thulhu (X-Men mashed with Cthulhu mythos). In that same vein, I think I’d love to see a Gotham/TMNT game. No other DC heroes and focus things on Gotham rather than NYC. Batman and the Turtles dealing with Gotham’s rogues gallery while maybe facing off against Shredder and the Foot Clan would be amazing. The contrast between the Turtles’ more lighthearted approach and Batman’s brooding intensity could create some really interesting roleplay dynamics.

The Turtles might lean into their darker iterations too, which would fit perfectly with Gotham’s atmosphere. Those grittier TMNT comics or the 2003 animated series vibes would mesh so well with the Bat-universe. And the opportunity for original characters would be really good here - maybe mutants created by a Gotham-based experiment, or new vigilantes inspired by either Batman or the Turtles. It’s probably something that’s just cool in my head, but still, if this game showed up I’d app at it immediately.