@eddie I was going to go off on a bunch of your earlier points, but several others already got there with very similar things to what I was going to say. Plus… Woah… I just got to this post:

@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

Truth of the matter is…

And I’m pretty sure that your own story tells us everything we need to know about you. You “invested” time, effort, and in-game currency into something and didn’t get the attention of a player you were interested in, the attention that you felt was your due.

You realize that putting in time, effort, and money into another person without a business deal involved is called “being a friend,” right? And that you aren’t owed anything for it? Particularly not anything of a sexual nature? There is no ROI on being a friend to someone, you do what you do because they’re your friend, not because you’re going to get something out of it.

@sao This isn’t a direct reply to you, but you were the last one on the thread talking about this subject. For me, it’s the difference between “I don’t distrust you” and “I don’t trust you.” I’ll play on a game with Staff that I don’t distrust. I may not fully trust them, but I’m willing to offer them the chance to earn that trust. I will not play on a game where I don’t trust Staff. That is for the people who have already burned me or someone who I do trust.

And I agree that life is too short for the stress of “do I trust this person I’ve put in a position of power over my fun or not,” and this has only gotten more true as my life has gotten more full.

@Apos Agreed. Any time that someone asks me to define a term that should be common knowledge, I assume that they are just looking for clearly delineated rules that they can push the envelope on and then claim that they’re not breaking the actual rules.

Everyone should know what “creepy” means, and if they can’t avoid it, then they can’t play on any game I run.

Like a few of the previous posters, I couldn’t finish reading the log. It was disgusting. The use of the Luck point to gaslight a character “because it’s funny” was particularly heinous.

Apart from and beyond the horrific content, I also found the future-imperfect tense (or whatever ‘will’ and ‘would’ and the like are) posing grating.

Sorry, @Cobalt, that you had to deal with that, but also thank you for dealing with it so that it didn’t continue (even if it led to you closing your game down).

The parent(s) of student(s) at my district were picked up by ICE and detained. The student(s) are with family, but it’s still shaking up this tiny-ass rural, progressive island community. And it’s shaking up me too even if I’m white as Wonder Bread.

When you’ve got your brain-weasels going full-bore, and then someone reaches out about RP, and those nasty scratchy bitey things quiet down for a little bit.

@Pavel I get that you’re trying to take the most generous interpretation, and I was too – until I got to the talk about ROI. I completely understand being disappointed that a storyline didn’t work out how I wanted it to, how I planned for it to. I get that, it’s happened to me, and it’s sucked.

But, unless there was some specific agreement, no one should be talking about return on investment in interpersonal relations unless it’s some version of Prue Leith’s “It’s not worth the calories” where you’re deciding that the other person isn’t worth your time and so you’re disengaging yourself.

To expect a particular return on your investment from the other person, particularly where romantic RP/TS is involved… that’s way too close to “I bought her dinner and drinks, I deserve sex” for my comfort.

As for the other situation that @eddie mentioned – I really feel for them about that one. That sounds like an uncomfortable situation, and a boundary that they set properly and which was then crossed by another player. That’s not cool at all.

To me, the core of a Lords & Ladies game is that characters are grouped by families or groups that are competing for influence and prestige within a larger feudal or semi-feudal structure – and that the characters are influential people within the setting.

Now, this could be:

• wayfinders who lead family canoes between Polynesian islands, competing for pride of place
• competing cyberpunk megacorps all under a Corporate Court – so long as the PCs were high-level executives at the corps, rather than disposable espionage operatives
• knights and barons and viscountesses living in fantasy castles
• mafia families under a capo di tutti capi
• technoknights and starship captains in a semi-feudal, multi-system space empire
• daimyo and geisha in the Shogunate (or a fantasy version thereof)
• minor landed gentry in Victorian England (or a fantasy version thereof)

I don’t think that pseudo-European matters, but I agree that combat is usually going to be a means to gather influence or prestige rather than the point in and of itself.

I would actually love to see a Lords & Ladies game using FS3 autocombat for attacks on reputation – leave any physical combat to just straight rolls, because it’s just not as important as the social maneuvering.

@Pyrephox said in On the utility of Logs, Receipts, and Proof:

There are patterns of abuse that can really on be seen AS A PATTERN, because each individual incident is small and easily dismissed.

This is why reporting even just “a creepy feeling” is so important. More than once, I have gotten reports from multiple players (and noticed myself) that a player was giving off a creepy vibe, testing those boundaries with people. When confronted, the creep revealed themselves via their responses and were removed – after they were removed, several additional people came forward to say that they had been targeted.

If you are being victimized by someone, chances are that you are not alone in this. If I (as Staff) get one report of someone being generally creepy, I’ll watch them more closely, but if I get four reports from people in three different playgroups? Yeah, that person’s probably gone, even if each of the reports is just “felt like they were pushing boundaries.” Unless it’s obvious, I’ll talk with the prospective creep, but it’s definitely going to be easier a) to be direct with them about the problem, and b) to obfuscate those reporting the problem, if I have multiple reports.

@Gashlycrumb said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:

I think handling intrigue with dice-mechanics is kind of a problem.

This is always going to be one of the biggest debates in MU*ing. I have many thoughts about it, but I think there’s a way to avoid that entirely:

Have dice determine affects on reputation (which I would use like health in an L&L game), but not interpersonal RP. So there’s no “convince another PC to support your cause by throwing dice at them” and there’s no “fantastic RPer with crap dice wrecks everyone around them despite having the stats of a mostly-dead tortoise.”

Have social dice work on Society, but not on PCs. So even if Lord Cantwrite blathers on about “toxic ruffle syndrome,” in his pose, if he’s got the dice (and presumably the background) to back it up, he can cause people to look in askance at Lord Rufflelover, at least for a while. This might be because Lord Cantwrite’s mommy is a Duchess, or it could be because he’s well-known to have influence at Court… whatever the case, Lord Rufflelover can still stand up to Lord Cantwrite’s bullying, but Society is going to notice Lord Cantwrite’s disapproval, and Lord Rufflelover’s suit for Lady Biginheritance’s hand might suffer until he can do some damage control.

@RedShoes said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

Being on Staff is not a promotion

Everyone knows how much bullshit this is. I mean, the whole post from Cujo is bullshit based on what’s been shared on this thread, but this part in particular.

Is being Staff a lot of work? Absolutely. Is it a promotion? I mean, I guess that depends on your definition of a promotion, but it certainly increases your social capital on the game. Claiming that being added to Staff isn’t a promotion is mealy-mouthed gaslighting bullshit.

I was Seraphim73 over on MSB, but I decided to just go with my usual Internet persona over here.

Past Characters:
The Weave:
<character names not remembered>

A Moment in Tyme (over 15 years, so yeah, there are a lot of characters there):
Angron Kirthak, Child of the Light
Njal, Queen’s Guardman/Magistrate
Arbaal, noble’s guard
Harkan Kirthak, Child of the Light, later Queen’s Guard
Creon, Child of the Light
Agammon, Child of the Light
Mason, Warder Trainee
Daiyen, Aiel Spear
Keldane, Child of the Light
Termiane Koronel, Seanchan infiltrator
Gerrit Ajara, weapons trainer
Volkare Previn, Asha’man
Brienne, Aes Sedai
Liahm, Asha’man
Parol, Weaponmastery and War Staffer

Dragon’s Fang
Harkan Kirthak, Child of the Light
Termiane Koronel, Seanchan-turned-Rebel Warder

Cuendillar
Termiane Koronel, Mercenary Blademaster
Sang, Warder Trainee
Raizo, Darkfriend Warder

Knights of the Old Republic
Volkare Previn, Sith Trooper
Rha Dun, Jedi Knight
Kieran “Key” Fel, Republic pilot
Salm, Feeorin mercenary
Shivas Anin, Jedi Knight
Kharss, Chistori mercenary
Bantha, Sith and War Staffer

Vampire Masquerade
Andrei, Russian Brujah

One of the Battlestar Games (Cerberus?)
Justinian, Tactical Officer

Dark Times
Victor Slade, Stormtrooper officer
Brodie Jaimes, Wroonian Mercenary
Sigil(?), Staffer

Chicago MUSH
Franklin, beat cop

Steel and Stone
Kamron Mallister, knight
Sterling, common knight
Darek Boldt, squire
Tyroan Nayland, steward

Game of Kings
Darrin Taniford (before the insanity)
Theme/Combat Staffer before opening

The Fifth World
Nikomachos Sauveur of Cindravale, jouster and knight
Drake Danger, rocker
Victor Khournas, foot knight
Mars, HeadWiz

Generations of Darkness
CT-1231 “Dog”, Stormtrooper
Brodie Jaimes, Human Mercenary/Rebel
Victor Slade, Republic Senator turned Rebel
Shivas Anin, Jedi Knight

Star Wars: Omens
Kajj’ik Previn, Dark Acolyte
Alpha-69 “Smoke,” Alpha-class clone
Victor Slade, Republic Senator
Rockabilly, Combat Staffer

Realms Adventurous
Kamron de Dinton, worthy knight
Morlois de Willcot, unworthy knight

The 100 MUSH
Orion, Staffer
Grey, angry ex-Guard Cadet
Luther, veteran warrior

Arx
Gabriel Bisland, loyal duke (briefly)

BSU
Van, by-the-book Viper pilot
Gustavo, gentle giant Marine

Fires of Hope
Erskine Hylle, ex-CIS rebel
Devlin Cinn, Imperial deserter

The Eighth Sea
Leviathan, Staffer
Sebastien Achille, swashbuckler
Ebo, pirate revolutionary

CoMUX
Simon Green, OC SHIELD Agent
Frank Castle, The Punisher

Common Descent
Simon Green, OC SHIELD Agent
Frank Castle, The Punisher
Roy Harper, Arsenal
Barry Allen, The Flash

Spirit Lake
Diego Reyes, newly-hired Deputy
Etta Tuscano, sword-wielding glassblower

Gray Harbor
Kevin Walters, geeky journalist/conspiracy theorist
Marius Andersson, would-be Viking architecture student

Dove Cove
Simon, War College Professor

Keys
Diego Reyes, police officer

The Last Road
Finder, outrider and scout

Stargate:
Blake, Marine Staff Sergeant

The Savage Skies
Rome, Staff
Thomas “Flash” Bradshaw, American show-off pilot
Yao Sang, Chinese Shanghai Municipal Policeman
Jimmy Walker, American Marine
Stephane Idrissi, former French Foreign Legionnaire, “archaeologist”

The Network
Zack, Bruiser with a Heart of Gold

Crystal Springs
Oliver Webb, overachieving performer-geek
Marius Anderssen, geeky handyman

Excelsior
Steve Rogers, America’s Ass

Currently Playing:
The Network
Roadspike, combat staffer
Oscar, True Believer

Excelsior
Peter Parker, your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man

@spiriferida said in On the utility of Logs, Receipts, and Proof:

Talk openly about the atmosphere you want to create
When people are acting shitty casually, don’t let it slide in the moment - call it out. “We don’t do that here” is a good phrase.
Don’t wait for people to report things to remove someone> demonstrate your own patterns of behavior to your players.

I cannot give better advice on creating an atmosphere of trust than these points. I also like “that’s not acceptable here” when calling out shitty behavior.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, if someone does report something to you, follow up on it and get back to them afterwards. Even if it’s just to say, “I’ve heard you, I understand that you have concerns, I’m going to be watching this person extra closely, please use the report function if they contact you at all for any reasons, I’ve told them not to.” Letting people know that they’ve been heard and that you appreciate their report and have taken it seriously will be spread to their friends, and their friends will feel more comfortable coming forward too.

Also also, if you remove someone from the game for bad behavior, be public about it. You don’t have to (and shouldn’t) include all of the gory details, but a general description of the unacceptable behavior and the fact that the person has been removed, posted to a public place, will make it clear what is not allowed.

I’m nearly done with this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VfxEeSevfE

about a bit character in Stranger Things Season 4 (caution, spoilers) and how to create – and then kill – a character that viewers engage with and want to know more about.

And I had to pause it because I was thinking, “Wow, this has a lot to do with how we create short- to medium-term NPCs, I should share it.” So here I am.

What are some of the other ways that you create NPCs who hook players/characters in?

@Gashlycrumb The internet is a wonderful, amazing thing for helping you find Your People – but it’s also a horrifying, disgusting thing for helping horrible, disgusting people find Their People, which convinces them that there are a ton of them and “everyone” will support them when they act on their horrible impulses because everyone in their echo chamber supports them when they talk about it.

Having two neo-Nazis in a small rural town was bad enough, but they could just be the town’s missing stair that everyone knew about and avoided, but when those two chuckleheads can go online, find Their People, and get hundreds or thousands of positive responses for their bullshittery, it emboldens them to take their bullshittery offline.

@mietze said in But Why:

You know, I actually don’t find this to be true. The truth is, you can have a 46 page document with every known instance…and the people who wish to play that type of thing are still going to do it. So it’s not that that is troublesome to me.

I agree with you on this. I actually think that the more you enumerate the things that aren’t allowed, the more asshats will look at the list and find things that aren’t on it but are still horrible, and then point to the list and say that it wasn’t on the list.

I like broad, blanket policies, with a few examples if necessary.

@Polk One thing you might also consider is a social contract for your game: enumerate the things that are baked into the setting and won’t be questioned, the things that can be argued over ICly, and the things which simply won’t be allowed OOCly.

@Aria Oh look, 4 of the 5 things you listed are 4 of my own interests, and my history specialization is modern European (really WW2). This is very familiar to me.

I’m a big fan of a right-sizing the staff to the players, or the players to the staff. If you can keep getting staffers that you trust and who can work together, keep gathering in players; but if you can’t keep finding staff that you trust, limit your playerbase.

I’m also a big fan of “Current Adventure” pages like we used on The Savage Skies: a page that details the current metaplot, with links to subplots or concurrently-running plots, descriptions of common allies and enemies, a map if appropriate, some plot hooks to start scenes or plots, etc. It keeps players and staff on the same page, lets players run their own scenes, and gives one place for everyone to look for information about what’s going on at the time.

@kalakh said in What Makes a Healthy Community and How to Deal When it Isn't:

So the question, in my mind, isn’t how to “repair” a community, but how to handle a community, how to deal with all of those many factors, where pressure should and should not be applied (and how much) by the members of said community, and how best to nurture the good things while adequately addressing the bad things.

I think that this is a great take on the actual question here. I don’t think the community needs repair so much as it needs constant maintenance.

I agree with many of the ideas here, but I personally think that the best thing that we can do to maintain the community is to be vigilant in removing the missing stairs. Players, if there’s someone that you would warn your friends about, tell staff/forum admins about them too. Staff/forum admins, if you’re warned about someone and they do seem like a threat to the safety of your players, remove them from your game and let people know. Players, if staff/forum admins won’t do it, remove yourself from the game and let people know. Get rid of toxic people. I believe that’s the best way to maintain the community.

I agree with @Pavel and others that staff should play on their game. I also agree that staff’s alts should be disclosed for transparency purposes – if someone is telling me something wild about the theme (ICly or OOCly), I’d like to know if I’m dealing with a random player or a staffer.

I also think that a staffer’s PC should never be “out in front” of a story. They can be right alongside the PCs of multiple non-staffers, but shouldn’t be out in front unless they’re serving as a glorified plot-giver – and even then the balance is very tight, and should always tip in the direction of non-staff PCs.