City of Glass - Discussion

[Pavel]

@Jenn said in City of Glass - Discussion:

Was it me? I feel like a half-dozen of those wound up being me…

We’re going to finish this omelette if it fucking kills me.

[Jenn]

@Pavel said in City of Glass - Discussion:

@Jenn said in City of Glass - Discussion:

Was it me? I feel like a half-dozen of those wound up being me…

We’re going to finish this omelette if it fucking kills me.

ROFLMAO! OOOOOOOF! Yeah. That was definitely mostly on me! But it’s SUCH a fun scene! Totally worth the waits, I hope. :lolsob:

[Pavel]

@Jenn said in City of Glass - Discussion:

That was definitely mostly on me!

Pshaw, it was definitely on circumstances outside of anyone’s control. I only brought it up to illustrate the point that playing slow is a totally valid and acceptable way to conduct oneself.

[Pavel]

@Roz said in City of Glass - Discussion:

when players cannot be trusted to respect the spirit of “PCs must clearly be adults,” then sometimes revisions must be made

Wait, what’d I miss? I was gone for like a day.

[Jennkryst]

@glitch said in City of Glass - Discussion:

@Jennkryst When we went with 18+, the idea was that it would be clear we were looking for adults, not barely legal catholic high school girls with a tempter agenda in demon.

Not that it matters, but I was originally going to make her a Saboteur but there were so many of them on the census, I swapped to the lowest group out of some decade-old need to keep the balance but also for the memes.

(Pre-empting the ‘there are 0 Integrators’ with they are essentially God-Machine Loyalists, and like Changeling Loyalists who work for the Keepers, are probably right-out for a game with a hard no-PVP policy)

But you’re right in that we changed the rules. So there’s that.

I’ve been pretty clear on this. You’re allowed to change the rules and policies to whatever you want. My issue is not that a rule was changed. My issue isn’t even the second, immediate follow-up rule change.

If I was told ‘actually this whole concept isn’t good for these reasons, here is a list of things to fix’… I would still probably be annoyed, because I spent over a week talking about the dumb idea on channel and nobody told me to knock it off before then, but I’d still change it (and still probably start from scratch).

My issue is I was given a specific change to make - to make her a freshman in college. And while I admittedly did not make that specific fix (took the semester off), making her a freshman in college would not have mattered, because the next rule change went to 21.

To put a more humorous spin on it, my issue is that I am lazy. I will put in the effort, but I do not want to put in more effort than is needed. If the kitchen needs sweeping, I’m going to sweep… but I’m going to wait until everyone is done making a mess, and then sweep once, I’m not going to sweep up a tiny bit every hour. And god help the person who watches me while I’m sweeping and then spills something on the floor right where I just went over.

… I lost the train of thought somewhere trying to be funny.

But yeah. ‘This character will not work for all of these reasons’ is valid. ‘This character will not work for one specific reason, please change this one thing… tricksies, it still won’t work’ is… annoying. And is the core of my argument.

[Roz]

@Jennkryst said in City of Glass - Discussion:

If I was told ‘actually this whole concept isn’t good for these reasons, here is a list of things to fix’… I would still probably be annoyed, because I spent over a week talking about the dumb idea on channel and nobody told me to knock it off before then, but I’d still change it (and still probably start from scratch).

We’re not always gonna be able to catch all the chatter on channel, sorry. But it already wasn’t following the stated guideline at the time, which was the PCs needed to clearly be adults.

@Jennkryst said in City of Glass - Discussion:

My issue is I was given a specific change to make - to make her a freshman in college. And while I admittedly did not make that specific fix (took the semester off), making her a freshman in college would not have mattered, because the next rule change went to 21.

Except if you had made the revision we suggested, then maybe we wouldn’t have had to revise the rules??

The rule to start was “PCs need to clearly be adults” and you apped a high schooler. When we said no, we don’t want high schoolers, make her at least a college student, you just – made no changes to age or timeline, and said she just graduated high school a semester early. That’s not the same thing, and it’s silly to act like it was a good faith revision in the spirit of what was being asked.

You’re acting like you made the revision that was asked for, and then we changed the rules so that it no longer worked. But that’s not what happened. You didn’t make the revision, and so we decided we didn’t want to even deal with this nebulous age area at all, because clearly people were gonna be weird about it.

[Deviant]

I was actually wondering what sparked the rule change to 21+. I’m glad I read this thread!

[Snackness]

I’m probably going to regret putting my toe into this but…can you not be a 21yo college freshman?

[Pavel]

@Deviant said in City of Glass - Discussion:

I was actually wondering what sparked the rule change to 21+. I’m glad I read this thread!

I had initially assumed it had something to do with avoiding the ‘sneaking into bars’ thing that basically always happens on a WoD/CoD game.

[Pyrephox]

@Pavel said in City of Glass - Discussion:

@Deviant said in City of Glass - Discussion:

I was actually wondering what sparked the rule change to 21+. I’m glad I read this thread!

I had initially assumed it had something to do with avoiding the ‘sneaking into bars’ thing that basically always happens on a WoD/CoD game.

I think it’s less the ‘sneaking into bars’ that’s the problem and more the ‘oh my, my just-turned-eighteen (but looks fourteen) has drunk SO MUCH, she just wouldn’t be able to stop ANYONE from doing ANYTHING they want to her. Oh I HOPE no one takes ADVANTAGE of this innocent little (totally legal) girl who is just SO DRUNK that look at that, she’s unbuttoning her blouse because she’s sooooo drunk and doesn’t understand what it might make some mean, wicked, naughty man do to her…’ thing.

[Pavel]

@Pyrephox Well, yeeeeeeaah. But I didn’t want to say that because I’m on a watchlist already.

[Jenn]

Ok, so… This topic seems to be getting super weird and maybe a little more personal than it might need to be? I agree entirely with the staff rulings that everyone and all the characters absolutely need to be, look, and act like adults. I could not agree with that any harder.

But also… Particularly with Jennkryst having talked about being the character build that wound up making sure those rules were clarified… Even if that was just a generic statement about what absolutely would and could be an issue from some players were those clarifications not added… It’s hard to tell contextually if that’s actually accusing HER CG concepts and plans to be looking for underage vulnerability forced upon them. And that unspecified allusion just makes me super uncomfortable and feels very gross. I don’t have a long history with her, nor know her well, but I’ve never gotten that kind of vibe from her ever before.

[Pyrephox]

@Pavel Hahaa, yeah. And the thing is? Just speaking personally for me - if two consenting adults wanna get their kink on in a fictional context, I do not care.

But I don’t think I’ve ever seen it stay a sexy interlude between two kinksters on a WoD game. Every time, it gets escalated and then other players have to deal with it in way, way more detail than they ever wanted to be exposed to. Some players just cannot respect other people’s boundaries and think that a ‘dark game’ means that everyone has to participate in their sexual fantasies in one way or another.

I’m so, so happy that most games have moved towards banning underaged concepts and sexual assault storylines. Not because there aren’t valid things to play in their areas, but because it only takes one bad actor to create a huge, horrible drama bomb and I never want to deal with those particular flavors of drama again.

[Pyrephox]

@Jenn That’s fair. And I honestly have no idea what Jennkryst’s intentions with the character are. She could be brilliant and have had a nuanced, thoughtful, and incredibly fun take on it.

I’m still quite glad the rules were moved to 21+, because unfortunately the alternate isn’t unusual. I remember a character approved (and shortly banned) on City of Shadows with a ‘barely legal cheerleader’ concept who immediately started paging every male character on the game (including mine) trying to set up coercive sexual scenarios with her as the victim.

I’m just real tired of it.

[Pavel]

@Jenn said in City of Glass - Discussion:

This topic seems to be getting super weird and maybe a little more personal than it might need to be?

Eeeeh not so much personal as just jaded. We’ve been around this particular block so many times that we’ve started to navigate using stores that used to be here rather than landmarks that are.

[hellfrog]

@Pavel said in City of Glass - Discussion:

@Roz said in City of Glass - Discussion:

when players cannot be trusted to respect the spirit of “PCs must clearly be adults,” then sometimes revisions must be made

Wait, what’d I miss? I was gone for like a day.

? you commented on it at the time. some weird shit about how staff needed to announce it publicly or they were being shady. I kind of assumed it was a joke because it was awkward and uncomfortable that jennkryst was complaining on chan about it.

[Jennkryst]

@hellfrog I think it’s more a ‘what new thing happened to bring this up’.

And it’s all @sao’s fault for talking about me taking forever in chargen. And maybe a little bit of me not being able to try to explain where my brain was going at the time (oh god, I still have more I’m working on in another window, why brain do this)

[Pavel]

@hellfrog said in City of Glass - Discussion:

? you commented on it at the time.

Oh sure, expect me to remember things I read or said or did or thought. Typical!

But yeah, @Roz posted like two hours ago and I assumed it was a new thing I wasn’t privy to.

[sao]

Sorry, it was definitely me, I just thought I was being funny.

[mietze]

I’m just gonna be real here. When I see someone want to be a HIGH SCHOOLER on a game where it’s expressly stated that adult behavior/appearances are expected, and furthermore is presented as a seduction/temptation type of thing (from what I remember on chan, ect) I really am not sure why it is hard to understand that perhaps that would be a very huge red flag. Though I don’t personally remember seeing mention of high school student (I always end up skimming public channel stuff because my brain can’t keep up well) if I had, I’ll be upfront that I absolutely would have expressed discomfort to staff about that.

Not only for the content. But also for the desire to be different in that way when one knows the OOC standards of the game.

ETA: but this is making me feel intensely nostalgic, so thanks for that! All the zany stupid stuff that happened that other people did AND I did on games when I was younger than any of my PCs now.