Don’t forget we moved!
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Liberation MUSH
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@Coin This is the specific policy post. It’s bb 1/22, posted on 7 June.
"* Proxy Complaints: I don’t want to hear complaints made on behalf of other players. If someone has a problem here, they need to bring it to me personally. If they don’t trust me enough…fine. A) I don’t see how you coming to me on their behalf changes anything in that case, and B) I probably can’t do anything for them anyways, if that’s their attitude.
But that’s not usually what it is about. Although it might be painted that way. It’s virtually always about the proxy complainer looking for an excuse to dig in about someone they don’t like, or some other agenda. Which is fine. It’s human nature to look for such opportunities. But I’m much too busy to keep tolerating that particular facet of human nature. I’d rather be telling story for someone, than have to listen to yet another complaint on behalf of another player who is supposedly too timid or frightened to come to me themselves. (Especially since that’s not the case 90% of the time.)"
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@Tchotchke wow, the tone of that.
But, I wanted to clarify - you said policy means it’s against policy for someone to even tell their friends about bad behavior happening to them, and I don’t see that in the snippet you posted.
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@hellfrog Hopefully this clarifies it. Bb 1/21
"If you have an OOC problem with someone or something, bring it to me. If you don’t trust me to handle it, then go play somewhere else. Because the telephone bullshit often ends up wasting a lot of my time.
None of you can ever solve anything OOCly between yourselves - so don’t try. And don’t waste other player’s time by bitching at them or trying to stir shit between them and others.
No one else needs to hear about your concerns, and it is no player’s prerogatives to decide who they need to bring these matters to. I am the only one on this game that addresses OOC disputes or concerns…except in very limited circumstances where my Directors handle specifically narrative or mechanic concerns within their spheres.
Let me make it crystal clear: Seeking to OOCly ‘warn’ or ‘vent’ or ‘bitch’ out other players is a breach of policy around here. And if the person you’re warning, venting to or bitching out, takes it to me (which they should), I will pull your bit. It doesn’t matter if it happened here or on Discord or anywhere else, if it still ends up eventually making trouble for me to deal with."
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oop there it is.
Well, we have pages and pages of shit behavior on staff’s part at Liberation. Add it to the records.
Good luck, people that play there.
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Literally the language of abusers in those posts.
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@Tchotchke said in Liberation MUSH:
I’m not going to kid myself into expecting change, but I can hope.
Don’t. Like – this thread has pages of shittery, the MSB had way more pages of shittery. After pages and pages of shittery, you’re just fooling yourself. Just stop playing. These things don’t change.
#StopPlayingOnGamesWithShittyStaff2023
she/her | playlist
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@Roz said in Liberation MUSH:
#StopPlayingOnGamesWithShittyStaff2023
for real. Read a book. Join a discord rp chat. Make your own mush! develop a laudanum addiction - anything
fr fr
(she/her) -
@Roz You are, of course, right. I went into the place somehow oblivious to it and had to discover it ‘organically’, so to speak.
@hellfrog said in Liberation MUSH:
@Roz said in Liberation MUSH:
#StopPlayingOnGamesWithShittyStaff2023
for real. Read a book. Join a discord rp chat. Make your own mush! develop a laudanum addiction - anything
All sound options.
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@Tchotchke said in Liberation MUSH:
@Roz You are, of course, right. I went into the place somehow oblivious to it and had to discover it ‘organically’, so to speak.
Yeah ofc the vast majority of MUers don’t frequent this board or MSB, most people don’t have whole threads of game drama before they join a game. But!! I just mean it’s not gonna change, now that you know. My evidence is: the amount of complaints over the past couple years and the fact that things sadly haven’t changed.
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@hellfrog said in Liberation MUSH:
@Roz said in Liberation MUSH:
#StopPlayingOnGamesWithShittyStaff2023
for real. Read a book. Join a discord rp chat. Make your own mush! develop a laudanum addiction - anything
acid is really fun to drop, guys.
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Bring back Victorian era drug problems!
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@Tchotchke said in Liberation MUSH:
Let me make it crystal clear: Seeking to OOCly ‘warn’ or ‘vent’ or ‘bitch’ out other players is a breach of policy around here. And if the person you’re warning, venting to or bitching out, takes it to me (which they should), I will pull your bit. It doesn’t matter if it happened here or on Discord or anywhere else, if it still ends up eventually making trouble for me to deal with."
Yikes. That’s just… beyond the pale. Trying to police what people say even outside the game (not that Staff should be policing private communications anyway) is just a huge red flag.
I think I entertained possibly playing at Liberation a while back, but some of its policies made me pause. Looks like it was a good decision.
All that said, I’m going to drop a Hot Take here and say that I kinda get Sundance’s frustration here. Having a mostly uninvolved third party come to you on behalf of someone else is a thorny thing. You pretty much have to go to the person referred and say: “Hey, I’ve heard you have X problem. Would you like to talk about it?” and if they say X Problem isn’t one well… you just wasted a bunch of time and stress. And if it is a problem and they just don’t trust you enough to say so, what can you do? Staff aren’t mind readers and can’t be expected to take action based on just rumors. Plenty of bad actors will use such a tactic to remove people they don’t like.
So I do kinda get why Sundance is so frustrated here, but banning any sort of talk about the problems – on game or off game – sure as hell isn’t the proper response.
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@MisterBoring said in Liberation MUSH:
Bring back Victorian era drug problems!
Was it a problem… or a solution?
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@STD said in Liberation MUSH:
Yikes. That’s just… beyond the pale. Trying to police what people say even outside the game
lol careful with this take it’s gonna indict at least one golden calf on this site
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If one player is harassing another, being gross, a creep, etc., or purposefully instigating game drama that’s harmful to the game, I don’t think it matters if the conversation happens in pages or in Discord. I don’t think there’s some big magic divide here.
I just also don’t think the basic premise of “one player venting to another about a bad experience” is something that should ever be automatically bannable. And that a staffer saying “you shouldn’t be talking to anyone else about these experiences, only me” is SUPER duper sketch.
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@shit-piss-love I’LL TAKE THE BAIT
I’ll police the shit out of what people say outside the game. If you’re being racist, sexist, whatever via discord or any other avenue then I don’t WANT you on my game.
ETA: Goddamn it, Roz took the bait first.
she/they
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This is largely why I have zero issues with games having a list of known issue players who decide “Yeah, just preemptive ban these people and eliminate a problem before it comes one.”
Which is kind of Minority Report like, but also if said actors already have an established history of being shitheels, then it’s pretty likely they’ll be shitheels on your game too.
