Bannings
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Pro: it’s really confusing to find if you don’t know how.
Pro: we’re all adults who can control our own choices on what to read. -
How hard is it to make these changes?
If we try opt-out for a month and find that people are like WHOA THERE DO NOT WANT, would it be difficult to flip it back to opt-in?
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@KarmaBum No, super doable. I am in favor of trying new things and if it doesn’t work trying something else. I’d like to give it a few hours to see if anyone chimes in with an OH GOD NO PLS NO but otherwise it seems like something we can discuss.
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I actually think that having a Hog Pit type of area as opt-out rather than opt-in is pretty reasonable. I respect that BMD made the choice it did, but I think I mentioned it at some point in the early talk that it’d be nice to have the section just open and let people use the built-in features to ignore the category or whatnot.
I went through our logs to see if I could find WHY we decided that, and it’s more that we just kind of … took it as given. I do know that it was also on the back of the politics section on MSB becoming visible in a bit of a shocking bit of unwelcome, which likely influenced the desire to specifically have unpleasant things be opt in.
I think that if the community had a strong desire and a strong reason to have it be opt out instead of opt in that it would be worth hearing.
I WANT A LIST OF PROS AND CONS.
I think there’s a fundamental difference between something like the Politics board and something like a Hog Pit-esque area: politics are unpleasant in a general “this is stressful RL stuff” way. Hog Pit-esque area will often have personally relevant stuff for people, including potentially posts about themselves.
Anywho I generally agree with the pros Selira and Farfalla have listed.
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Honestly, the point of “let people come and see on their own if people are talking shit about them rather than jumping through hoops” is really solid to me, and fits with the motions for transparency. It will make it feel less like a secret club and more of an open part of the community.
I agree with this. I’d never really thought about people needing to jump through hoops if someone said ‘they’re talking about you/this situation’ and they wanted to check in, but I think it’s a fair issue.
It might also do the section some good to know that things posted there are automatically publicly visible. Maybe. Possibly.
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The mod squad is split on it – Pyre and I generally prefer opt-in, Pavel and Tsar generally prefer opt-out – but neither Pyre and I feel strongly on that, and Pavel doesn’t feel strong either way.
SO. As you can see, a lot of strong opinions.
Again, giving it a bit for someone to blitz through like NO AND HERE IS WHY, but otherwise I’ll make this change tonight. At some point.
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@Tat Having recently been the subject of discussion in hogpit, where I was unable to see it, I think the transparency is a really good argument. Knowing you’re being talked about somewhere but not being able to even see it is rough.
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@Tez What are your reasons for preferring opt-in?
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@farfalla I wouldn’t want someone tripping over something they didn’t want to read without making the choice to read it.
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I used to hold the position that it should be opt in because of the unsightly warts argument I made myself but I actually have changed my mind and prefer opt out now for the reasons cited by @farfalla.
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Tsar generally prefer opt-out
It’s me, Tsar, and you all may remember me on this forum from some of my greatest posts like “I didn’t know how to change my name on discord so I used a name I didn’t enjoy for years”.
My opt-out stance is based entirely on the time I went to MSB and had no idea the hogpit even existed because I didn’t know how to opt-in and didn’t know what people were speaking of for months. In conclusion, I do not feel super strongly about this.
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Tsar generally prefer opt-out
It’s me, Tsar, and you all may remember me on this forum from some of my greatest posts like “I didn’t know how to change my name on discord so I used a name I didn’t enjoy for years”.
My opt-out stance is based entirely on the time I went to MSB and had no idea the hogpit even existed because I didn’t know how to opt-in and didn’t know what people were speaking of for months. In conclusion, I do not feel super strongly about this.
That was a REALLY good post.
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Huh. I just realized I may still have access to the MSB database from my virtual machine.
Now I’m curious if I ever downloaded a copy of the DB.
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@farfalla I wouldn’t want someone tripping over something they didn’t want to read without making the choice to read it.
The thing is, unless you are living under a rock with no wi-fi, someone will absolutely tell you what is being said about you even if you do manage to blissfully not stumble across it. Might as well be opt-out.
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@farfalla I wouldn’t want someone tripping over something they didn’t want to read without making the choice to read it.
The thing is, unless you are living under a rock with no wi-fi, someone will absolutely tell you what is being said about you even if you do manage to blissfully not stumble across it. Might as well be opt-out.
You aren’t fkn wrong. I’ve been told some of the worst stuff by some of the best people in the hobby because they sincerely thought they were being helpful.
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Pretty much. During a time period in which some shitty things were being said about me on MSB, I tried to just not log in so I didn’t have to see them, but people on game helpfully let me know via pages exactly what was being said about me. It got to me enough that I made the very impulsive decision to leave the game in the middle of it because I could not get away from it otherwise.
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Ugh I woke up still really bothered by how Farfalla’s ban is being characterized on MSB. I have not actually heard anyone other than Ganymede, even those generally speaking on her side of issues or at least in the middle, actually say “I looked at the logs and agree the ban was totally warranted.” Amidst everything else, even when they very clearly will say that they didn’t agree with other behavior. The loudness of everyone’s exit was a direct result of Farfalla’s ban, but no one I can see is actually, actively disagreeing with the idea that it was an unjust ban.
Just DRIVING ME A LITTLE NUTS this morning.
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Ugh I woke up still really bothered by how Farfalla’s ban is being characterized on MSB. I have not actually heard anyone other than Ganymede, even those generally speaking on her side of issues or at least in the middle, actually say “I looked at the logs and agree the ban was totally warranted.” Amidst everything else, even when they very clearly will say that they didn’t agree with other behavior. The loudness of everyone’s exit was a direct result of Farfalla’s ban, but no one I can see is actually, actively disagreeing with the idea that it was an unjust ban.
Just DRIVING ME A LITTLE NUTS this morning.
Just think of the MSBers as a bunch of people huffing copium while they try to rationalize how the community fell apart instead of accept the truth of the matter.
