Haven
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Guys what the HELL happened on this haven game and is this why you’re all vaguely fucked up regarding RP? I’m told there was a huge documented thread about this elsewhere but now it’s lost to the ether forever.
IIRC the documented thread was on MU Soapbox.
If only people hadn’t lied about plans to totally keep it around as an archive after kicking everyone out.
Mummy Pun? MUMMY PUN!
She/her -
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Guys what the HELL happened on this haven game and is this why you’re all vaguely fucked up regarding RP? I’m told there was a huge documented thread about this elsewhere but now it’s lost to the ether forever.
IIRC the documented thread was on MU Soapbox.
If only people hadn’t lied about plans to totally keep it around as an archive after kicking everyone out.
In an effort to repopulate the lost details, I have three stories from Haven.
The first is when I created a character. I knew of all the horrible stuff that went on in Haven, so my quest was to study it to ensure nothing of that sort could happen in Silent Heaven. (This was part of a larger goal to play every active RP game in order to identify what works and what doesn’t work, and then combine everything together, haha.)
So I went into Haven with the intention of taking notes.
I was immediately shocked when, during chargen, someone named Horsey Biscuit attempted to have unprotected sex with my partially-created character. My chargen experience was interrupted by a prompt to choose Yes or No to accept the unprotected sex attempt.
I made a note to block all possible actions during chargen (and to never have such a bizarre prompt, which I already wasn’t planning). I moved on and entered the game.
I found an inn, and did some RP with a few people who were there as well. Eventually , one character propositioned mine via RP. My character told him to buzz off and to go make out with a can opener.
This made him very angry, so he initiated combat code with my character. I asked him OOC for a tutorial on combat and he responded by telling me OOC to “just let it happen.”
He knocked out my character and woke her up in a hotel room, with her arms and legs bound. He then instructed me to say the phrase that allows non-consensual sexual acts to happen to my character. I refused. His character then said that mine wasn’t worth r*ping and he left. Still bound in the hotel room, I logged out. I made a note to disallow aggressive actions on new characters for their first week, and to make any detainment effects last for only an hour while requiring another character to be present and RPing.
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The second time I logged into Haven, my character woke up in a completely different place, so I went exploring. I found a farm, a lighthouse, and a warehouse district bereft of characters. Then, unfortunately, I accidentally wandered onto the campus and found folks talking about a 12 year-old’s tentacle training, so I got out of there.
Then someone offered to run a PRP scene for me, where my character had to get on a phantom ice cream truck to avoid a bear attack. That was some fun RP. I brought my spooked PC to a restaurant to ask about the ice cream truck and they had no idea what she was talking about. Then I mentioned the bear and they said that there are no coded encounters with bears so I must by lying. That was the most disheartening way to crush the only positive experience I had, so I left to continue my wanderings.
Then there was a broadcast of “wet t-shirt contest starting in 10 minutes” at some club. I would have preferred any other event, but I’m here to study this game, so why not.
They denied my character entry into the club because she had an appearance score of 1.5 out of 10. But they left the door open and I was able to watch the RP from the outside.
The next hour or so was just a bunch of boobs going everywhere. I couldn’t discern any coherent story progression. So I logged out, having learned nothing from the event.
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The third story is not mine, but rather someone else posting about the time the admin logs were accidentally visible to all characters for about a day. I still have a portion of a log.
Sat Feb 6 13:12:30 2016 :: LOGONCOUNT: Jacob MinOff: 716, Esteem: 9057, RPXP 0+61000 XP 0+3200, Influence: 961, Karma: 5663, Cash: 0+380
Sat Feb 6 13:12:30 2016 :: LOGONINFLUENCE Jacob: Result: -70, Cost: -150, standpoints: 0, slut: 0, status 0, tier 30, prof 0, social 0, praise 0
Sat Feb 6 13:12:31 2016 :: LOGONCOUNT: Dani MinOff: 449, Esteem: 0, RPXP 0+510000 XP 0+102000, Influence: 12092, Karma: 24742, Cash: 0+119
Sat Feb 6 13:12:31 2016 :: LOGONINFLUENCE Dani: Result: -126, Cost: -150, standpoints: 0, slut: 0, status 0, tier 20, prof 0, social 0, praise -46
Sat Feb 6 13:12:40 2016 :: INFLUENCE BEHAVE: Dani gets given -1 for Habit logon…
Sat Feb 6 13:12:40 2016 :: INFLUENCE BEHAVE: Jacob gets given 2 for Habit logon…
Sat Feb 6 13:12:45 2016 :: ATTRACT: Kayly was given 10 for Showering.
Sat Feb 6 13:12:50 2016 :: ATTRACT: Kayly was given 10 for Showering.There were also point gains for female characters putting on makeup, point losses for females eating too fast, and point losses to male characters for “banging an uggo.”
The implementation of hidden lust and attractiveness values is gross, doubly so for the misogyny present within the system which punishes women for their actions and qualities.
If it weren’t misogynistic, and if it covered actions for all sorts of vices (not just lust), then I imagined that would be an intriguing system for gaining the attention of demonic influences.
That was actually the inspiration for a system in Silent Heaven that the SH players have called “attunement,” where every system ties into a certain vice. For example, if your character KO’s another character in combat, that contributes to your character’s Wrath attunement, gaining the attention of a wrathful demon. Going idle contributes to Sloth. Overeating contributes to Gluttony. Having a character desc that’s longer than a single page contributes to Pride.
I made sure there are 3 or 4 actions that contribute to each of the 15 vices, in order to avoid repetition.
Ultimately, there were some good takeaways from my Haven experience. It had some particularly neat concepts. The main drawback for Haven was that everything was executed in some of the worst ways imaginable, to empower abusers at every level of the hierarchy, both IC and OOC.
Game-runner of Silent Heaven, a small-town horror MU.
https://silentheaven.org -
Ok like. If you log into a game and there’s people trying to rape your character immediately upon chargen why did you continue playing there? How can you say there are “neat concepts” in a game full of rape and TENTACLE TRAINING 12 YEAR OLDS?? I don’t even understand what you could’ve possibly learned from this experience or why anyone would continue to play there, staff there, or have fucking fond memories of there when there was CHILD PORN. Even if you avoided it, you still played on a game that PROMOTED CHILD PORN.
is this fucking bizzaro land? What the fuck. Seriously.
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@bear_necessities Are you really going to try to bonk Jumpscare on the head for giving us this incredible information?
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There were also point gains for female characters putting on makeup, point losses for females eating too fast, and point losses to male characters for “banging an uggo.”
AAAAAAAAAA
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If you log into a game and there’s people trying to rape your character immediately upon chargen why did you continue playing there?
i mean, it was stated pretty clearly on the post?
I knew of all the horrible stuff that went on in Haven, so my quest was to study it to ensure nothing of that sort could happen in Silent Heaven.
So I went into Haven with the intention of taking notes.
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@bear_necessities It’s very easy to have fun on a game where things you’d find disgusting are happening, when they’re not happening to you. I played on Shang, a game filled with fetishes that gross me out, for years, and did so pretty happily, despite the presence of various dickwads (figurative and sometimes distressingly literal).
In fact, speaking of finding useful games in a game with things I don’t like, I often refer to Shang’s kinks system as a decent structure for RP Prefs if you want to get coded and granular with them.
Play where you want, let other people play where THEY want, and get what they want out of the experience.
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Yeah so, was not bonking Jumpecare over the head. Sorry if it came off that way.
I’m pretty distressed over the child rape RP part of this whole thing.
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Play where you want, let other people play where THEY want, and get what they want out of the experience.
I feel like we should all agree to draw the line on games that have child rape in them though. Like I definitely do not want anyone getting what they want out of that experience. Ever.
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@DrQuinn If an actual, real child is being actually assaulted via the mechanisms of the game, absolutely. (Note, I recognize that this is possible and happens and should absolutely be stopped, whether it’s passing CSAM or grooming underaged players, etc.)
But if we’re talking about consenting adults typing words then there are no children involved. If they play necrophilia, there are no corpses involved. Bestiality? No animals involved. Noncon of any type or flavor? No nonconsenting people involved.
In which case, what penalties do you wish the gaming community to inflict on the consenting adults typing the fictional words at each other? Or an entire game that allows such words to be typed at consenting adults?
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@Pyrephox Yikes.
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@Pyrephox said:
But if we’re talking about consenting adults typing words then there are no children involved. If they play necrophilia, there are no corpses involved. Bestiality? No animals involved. Noncon of any type or flavor? No nonconsenting people involved.I wouldn’t let anyone near my dog if I had reason to suspect they jerk off to the thought of fucking dogs.
People may pretend they believe that what people get off to says absolutely nothing of import about their personality structure, and that saying otherwise is tantamount to bigotry; but the range of sneering disgust to morbid fascination in this very thread proves that on some instinctive subconscious level, everyone knows this is false.
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@Pyrephox said:
But if we’re talking about consenting adults typing words then there are no children involved. If they play necrophilia, there are no corpses involved. Bestiality? No animals involved. Noncon of any type or flavor? No nonconsenting people involved.I wouldn’t let anyone near my dog if I had reason to suspect they jerk off to the thought of fucking dogs.
People may pretend they believe that what people get off to says absolutely nothing of import about their personality structure, and that saying otherwise is tantamount to bigotry; but the range of sneering disgust to morbid fascination in this very thread proves that on some instinctive subconscious level, everyone knows this is false.
Yikes.
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this is getting wildly over the paygrade of a MU hobby forum but i’ll just say that it’s real common for people to get titillated by taboo in fictional format that has literally zero presence in their real life attractions. because the human brain is fucking weird. oftentimes the taboo is doing all the heavy lifting.
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I thought we were just dunking on the people that coded a system where you lose attractiveness points if you EAT TOO FAST and lose points for fucking someone unattractive but it’s ONLY IF THEY ARE A WOMENS. That’s fuckin’ nuts!! Here we are as a community dunking on it!! WHAT THE HECK
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@Yam personally I think the uggo thing is the least problematic part of Haven when people are RPing 12 year olds getting tentacle trained but idk man
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@bear_necessities That sucks too! It all sux! BOO HAVEN
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I thought we were just dunking on the people that coded a system where you lose attractiveness points if you EAT TOO FAST and lose points for fucking someone unattractive but it’s ONLY IF THEY ARE A WOMENS. That’s fuckin’ nuts!! Here we are as a community dunking on it!! WHAT THE HECK
So like I’m confused, why does all this suck then?
What if I’m a guy and my kink is subby chicks who wanna be slut-shamed and told to wear make-up and heels or they’re not attractive. And if they’re not attractive I can’t be seen banging them because then I’d be seen as less attractive for having banged an uggo.
What if my five gfs are into that, who are you to tell us that sucks? Everyone consents! I mean maybe they’re desperate for the validation they derive from this game and the attention of its limited mens, and they know that if they say they don’t like it they’ll be told they aren’t cool and are annoying. And maybe I’m friends with staff, so they worry they’ll be excluded from story if they aren’t part of my inner circle. But so what! Still, they consent!
And if none of that makes you uncomfortable to think about then so be it, you’re ideologically consistent in also being a free speech absolutist who sees kinkshaming as tantamout to bigotry.
But if it does make you uncomfortable, then own up to the fact that you do not genuinely think that what two (or in this example six) adults type to each other on the internet to get off is, in fact, totally meaningless and harmless so long as the magic spell of “consent” was cast.
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