@Aria You’d Better Be Lightning was my lifeline through hospice. I’m gutted. But the obituary their wife wrote was absolutely beautiful, and they went out on their own terms.

I fell in love with them when I read a copy of Lord of the Butterflies when it first released. Then I backtracked to Pole Dancing to Gospel Hymns and was hooked.

They just describe MY experience of the human experience so much more eloquently than I would ever be able. The entire world lost the gift of a wonderful translator, and this one’s going to linger with me for a while.

Andrea Gibson

@Muse

Yours is a much more believable reassurance. Thank you for that.

@Captain-Howdy

Yeah… Usually I avoid the who might be who and who’s a sock puppet guessing game. But. A new name with only one singular post on the forums popping out from the woodwork to proclaim Pika is gone, and Pika’s history… I’m not actually convinced at all that Pika is gone. WAY less inclined to believe that NOW.

@Pavel

I guess I should have been clearer. It was stated earlier we were talking about PvP MUSH’s rather than MUDs or other things. I’ve not encounterd a MUSH that wasn’t storytelling first and foremost, but. There a a lot of things I haven’t encountered, too.

@Pavel said in pvp vs pvp:

Given that how you want to play is collaborative storytelling. Just because that’s what (general) we forum users tend to prefer doesn’t make that the default for the hobby as a whole.

I try not to slip into the idea of there being ‘wrong fun’ even if it’s not a style of fun that’s fun for me.

But. I’m not sure I can see this in ways that wouldn’t be wrong fun. This hobby is LITERALLY comprised of nothing more than dice and co-writing stories with each other. Co-writing stories seems to be a definition of collaborative storytelling, unless your only and entire RP is a string of endless vignettes.

Could you expain how it’s possible to MUSH without collaborative storytelling because I’m super confused and not understanding what you mean.

@Cygnus said in pvp vs pvp:

might be kind of lame

Y’all. It’s 2025. Can we maybe think about trying to use a different word here?

@Snackness Take care of each other. And we’re all here for support if you need to chat it out away from other folks who might not be ready to talk about stuff the way you might need. to do so.

@Snackness I’m so, so sorry. Is there anything you need we can send? I cannot imagine the heartbreak.

@SockMonkey

Wait. Y’all got thirty years? WTF?

@Gashlycrumb said in Player Ratios:

@Jumpscare said in Player Ratios:

The order that I do them? Whichever I have the energy for.
Awesome feels their resentment and says, “Bridget and Camille’s demanding additudes burned me out on staffing. Imagine how fast it would have happened if I’d been expected to interact with them.”

So. I played a game where the head (and only staffer) was Awesome. Also, it was one of the WORST token handout spots I’ve been on, too. Bribes all over the place.

The solution to AwesomeStaffer here isn’t to tokenize the game and the RP. The solution to AwfulStaffer is to recognize some games just are poorly run, or don’t prioritize equality in a way that suits you, or is just not the experience you signed up for.

But AwfulStaffer isn’t a part of player ratio to storyteller needs for a game. AwfulStaffer is an entirely different headache. And trying to solve that headache with tokens and trades to be bartered with less Awful or maybe even ACTUALLY AwesomeStaffers isn’t going to solve it. It’s just going to make both the Awesome staffers AND the Awful ones awful by having tried to fix what wasn’t broken with the wrong fix for what was.

@bear_necessities said in World Tone / Feeling:

@Tez so it’s you eh???

If it weren’t for your busy schedule, based on premise, I would have been guessing YOU.

@Pavel said in Player Ratios:

Some people like points. Some people don’t. Some people fucking crave points and the associated validation like their lives depend on it.

Agreed. It was mentioned early on. I wasn’t a fan then, but it was early on, so figured I’d give it longer, and read more.

More folks agreed with points.

I still think they’re weird. Games that I’ve played that use them, and especially rely on them, usually they’re not the best games I’ve been on.

The best games, in my opinion, have been ones where people don’t keep track. They just write. The majority is PrP with staff support/guidance on questions, but where story-tellers weren’t NEEDED for any scene, though, when able would host events or dole out new plot trickles or whatnot. But. In between, folks are just responsible for telling their own things in ways that makes sense to the characters and game themes.

If you and others see relevance or want to tie rewards to stories for whatever reasons, feel free. I’m just a player, I’m not gonna stop anyone from doing what they’re doing. But to me? They’re not at all the same. It’s apples and oranges. Sure, they’re both fruits and you can store them in the same bowl. But if you do… The apples rot faster and the oranges dehydrate.

I think maybe part of this is you think I’m talking to you specifically, @Gashlycrumb. But other than this specific comment, and the one where you asked me a direct question, I was just replying to the most recent end thread.

It’s absolutely fine that for you, that’s a mechanic that would be interesting and might work out. If it would, I really do hope that you and others who enjoy that same reward points make it work and have amazing successes! Not every game is for every player, and there’s nothing at all wrong with that.

It’s just, that at least for me, they’re two separate things, and I only enjoy one of them. My dislike of the other is strong enough that it would ruin my fun and I’d personally find the games where that isn’t true to be weird. But weird is just different from how others see it, not wrong or bad. It makes the vibes off, for me, that so many folks are I guess ok with the concept of it, but. Again. It’s ok that a lot of us like and enjoy different things.

I’m not trying to wrong fun anyone here, and I’m sorry if it came across that I was. I’m just having different fun as my opinion on it.

@Gashlycrumb

Points make me think of keeping score, and days of PvP. I like the modern vibe of games where we’re all on the same dysfunctional team together, telling the stories, and we survive it or we don’t, but. we’re doing it together.

Once we start tracking points on something that’s a spare time pretendy collaborative writing game, that loses the creativity and story-driven side of it - at least for me. I maintain that the only thing needed for an active, involved game is an understanding of your scopes and limits, and letting the characters who want to write and play in it do just that.

We’re all adults. We don’t need every scene to have story-tellers, or every piece of plot spoon fed. We can figure it out pretty well by just asking each other for the scenes we want, and saying yes when they pitch back at you and it sounds like fun.

Is it important to have a vague expectation of how much official ST plot your playerbase needs? Probably.

Is it important to look at bribes and rewards just to figure that part out? Probably not.

But. I’m also super low crunchy. I rarely look at dice outside the wondering of hey, this is iffy, am I able? Even as a ST, I rarely ask for rolls unless something isn’t natural and normal to the character. Most of the time, just letting them do their things with their words while I steer the plot part doesn’t need it. They usually all write good mixes of both wins and losses, and the few who miss that vibe usually are super fine with it once they’ve been politely paged.

I think getting bogged down into mechanics of things makes it lose some of the magic. And I think that goes double when the opposite side is lets bribe people into making sure there is RP, the thing they’re here to do and should be mostly able to manage on their own.

And, if folks WANT bribe games, like, sure. Build them, have fun, and that’s ok. Not everyone likes everything. I’m just not sure why bribe mechanics are the main topic on a thread about how many story-tellers are needed per average number of players. To me… Bribe mechanics aren’t what tells or even shows there were or are good stories. They’re entirely separate. And if a game is relying on the bribes to ensure there are stories getting told… That seems more game issue than ratio problem.

NGL. The vibes on this are getting weird. I feel like most every game these days is pretty strong anti-capitalist vibes.

And like, don’t get me wrong, I’m HERE for that.

But. If we’re all hanging out designing new worlds and games and governments that aren’t based around profiting from labor…

Why do we think that buying/selling stories with points and perks is going to make anything better?

You’ll always have some players who have more time than sense, and they will farm those points and buy things that no one else wants.

And you’ll always have the folks with two jobs, or kids, or sick parents who may only be able to go to one single social scene a month. And they’re not earning points, and even if they were, they wouldn’t know how to spend them. But they chat a few minutes every day on chat while they commute, and answer questions, and since they’re on the game, so are all their friends, two of whom are storytellers - but wouldn’t be if their friend wasn’t barely sometimes there. And that person’s on monthly scene and the friends who are there for that are contributing SO MUCH MORE than your points farmer ever could.

And now, we’re not telling our anti-capitalist stories and building our fictional dreamt of utopias (IC’ly, OOC’ly we’re planning to fail because we don’t want to kill the game and theme) by instead making the game itself the example of the capitalist hellhole we’re all trying to escape in our pretendy happy fun times…

It’s getting too complicated.

Plan out what parts of plot need to be super secret, and how/when/to whom it will or won’t get doled out.

Put all the rest of plot in your lore pages and outline the acceptable scopes of PRP, ST arcs, and Plot in a Boxes. Give folks a few bingo cards and scene randomizers. Make one or two totally normal looking bingo card entries actually tie into one of the few secret plots that aren’t just lore-filed and up for everyone so that they can run for each other and their friends or just do whatever they’re doing.

And if you get innundated and can’t keep up, be honest about it. Say so on the forum. Pause new characters or ask folks hey, can everyone chip in and find a buddy, and each of you tell a story about THISTHING for each other, and up to 2 of their other friends. By then, we should be caught up enough to finish up plot stuff, and after that catches up, we’ll look at re-balancing things and then repoen. CG, or instead realize this is our limit, and where we’re going to keep it.

Like. Honestly. Micro-transactions aren’t the answers here. Honest communication, periodically re-evaluating capacities, and trusting each other to take care of our own fun, and to help others do the same is the only solution I personally think it would take.

But. I’m also not known for being a game runner. Maybe ymmv. But as a player? Those were the setups I always found to be the most fun to write in. And they tended to be the best ran and most stable player-bases, too.

I’m kind of with Faraday here. As long as the lore files on what is and isn’t allowed on PRP are clear, and especially if there are a few ‘plot in a box’ options that get pinned up now and then to be claimed…

We’re all here to be telling stories with, to, and for one another. We take turns running, or we just pitch and idea and co-run, or we just tell the stories we want and trust others to do the same.

But as long as there aren’t barriers to people starting, seeking, and running their own RP, a lot of story-telling needs take care of themselves just as long as a +req about:

Gonna run this plot, out of A/B/C which big bads are most appropriate, what outcomes need avoided at all costs, and any information in that setting I should know while running it.

It takes a few minutes to drop that knowledge onto a PRP that anyone (no storyteller needed outside the participants) can run, and that group is off and going, same as any of the others. If they overlap, cool. If they don’t, also fine. But for the most part… As long as we’re trusted with the pieces of plot that are relevant, we’re all capable of entertaining ourselves without hopefully becoming overly burdensome.

@Roadspike said in World Tone / Feeling:

I want to be I want to be able to punch it in the face.

I also would like to punch most of the universe in the face. When and where do we start swinging?

@Tez

Mostly, I get Discords at random from folks who have more players than stories and pop by to tell some. Then folks peep I’m there and they get MORE players but I’m already telling stories and then things begin to explode.

I dunno. I’m spammy and I write a lot and it seems to usually get my friends both out of and into lots of troubles on the regular.

And yet. Most of 'em still keep putting up with me. And messaging for more.

@MisterBoring

LOL. I’m being such a bully about it that they still haven’t told me the IP because then I’m unstoppable.

But the lore/setting/theme-y stuff we’re workshopping on Discord while our coders figure out how they wanna put together sheets and assign splats is at least danged entertaining.