@Faraday said in AI In Poses:

Good to be skeptical, but I don’t think it’s quite that bad. More like “5 out of 6 doctors agree!” advertising. It is a meta-analysis of studies that (as far as I can tell) were done by other people. There are still a host of potential biases in play. My general point was that even with all those potential biases, they’re still admitting that sometimes they’re only getting a “B”.

Good call-out here! I am apparently in Reviewer #2 brain these days whenever I look at any research work. It’s great that they discussed their limitations and identified that there will still be some cases where they’ll miss the mark. I completely overlooked that part of your previous post!

@Trashcan said in AI In Poses:

This white paper, published by Originality.ai, which concluded that Originality.ai is the best checker,

while I’m not disputing that Originality.ai is good as I’ve never used it, this is the same vibe as “we have investigated ourselves and found that we’re the best”

@Faraday said in AI In Poses:

forgets that she has a fan in her hand from one pose to the next

yes, uh, damn that forgetful AI, ahem >.> <.<

I appreciate the pose examples because I wouldn’t have thought they would look like that. There’s still a vague sense of uncanny around a couple of the lines there, like

“the sort reserved for moments that amuse rather than unsettle”

and

“the plain cut of a coat and the steady set of shoulders register in her mind as particulars to be filed away”

but it may be hard to recognize among a series of other poses if you were in a larger group scene.

@Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:

@Tez So you call yourself a role player? [smirk.jpg] Name all poses.

What’s your favorite pose? Oh, heh. Yeah, that was okay. I prefer the earlier @emits.

@Tez said in AI In Poses:

@somasatori This is inaccurate to how they would actually respond. I was actually just saying this elsewhere, but the technology changes RAPIDLY, and we are fooling ourselves to think that is what it looks like, or that what we recognize now we will recognize in six or even three months.

It’s too bad, since it would be easy enough to just separate it out. It’s hard to imagine what the endgame of using an LLM to RP would be, since the implication would be that if you’re using it, I could be using it, so … what, we’re just having our LLMs RP with each other? Even the staunchest “LLMs reduce the mental load/writing barrier on the player to dig into the story” advocates have to admit that would be a useless future for the hobby.

I know that AI models are slightly more sophisticated now, but whenever I picture attempting to RP with someone using an LLM for their poses, I imagine me writing out a big scene set, and then someone responding with the sort of stereotypical AI bowing and scraping it does.

Just pulling from a scene I ran back on Fallcoast in like 2015 because logs are forever (names removed):

The Forbidden Gate is one of the more frequented Gates in Fallcoast, and with good reason. It typically leads to one of the more stable and easier parts of the Underworld to access and travel through, rather than some of the others, which lead to winding caverns and mazes. Player1 and Player2 are able to push their way through the Gate and get into the Autocthonous Depths, pulling themselves through the initial tight squeeze of the caverns directly beyond the Gate until they reach the larger mass of empty rock interspersed with pillars, the place where most of the Rivers tend to wind up being.

Like usual lately, this part of the Underworld is a quiet place almost devoid entirely of ghosts and the Unfettered. It seems bizarrely empty; not even the sound of something moving in the dark beyond the Sin-Eaters’ line of sight can be heard. Only the rush of some Underworld River in the distance, and the scent of stale, fetid water that’s been standing for some time.

Player1 glances about and says, "It sounds like you were referring to how few ghosts are around these days. You’re absolutely right! Now I notice that there are no ghosts at all—it looks like they have fled deeper into the Autocthonous Depths. It isn’t just eerie. It’s terrifying.

Rob Reiner, director of such greats as Princess Bride, my dad’s favorite movie (Sleepless in Seattle), Wolf of Wall Street, and This Is Spinal Tap was apparently murdered in his home with his wife.

Edit: Evidently, they were murdered by their son.

Some poor med student attempting to use GPT to write a paper for their ophthalmology class:

“The patient’s orbs glistened with lacrimal fluid like morning dew…”

though this non-MUSH-related thing also annoys me about AI and the techbro insistence that it must be in absolutely every product:

I typo’d “b and”. No one calls a watch band a “watch B&”. This is a very Hello Fellow Kids reaction, because if I had to guess it’s assuming that I’m using some sort of slang.

Yeah, I would personally never call myself a coder, just an extreme hobbyist (also my knowledge of code starts at Evennia/python and ends at Evennia/python, with a very minor knowledge of TinyMUX/MUSH functions from 13 years ago thanks to Cobalt doing a code class back then). The setting and story is where a game really lives and breathes for me. I have admittedly a million ideas for games, but those ideas often have very specific stories, locations, characters, etc. which/who I will generally feel the need to write out, for better or worse. I personally don’t think this is an abnormal perspective for MUSH developers, especially the ones who are driving the setting, or story if something like a metaplot exists. Obviously we all can’t make an Arx or write a bunch of setting lore like Empire or some of the WoD projects. However, even if you’re just coming in with a new game that’s completely barebones, aren’t you at least interested in seeing what happens based on how the world is developed by your players? That probably requires some investment in the creation process.

I’m reminded of this comment that I read, or maybe was highlighted in one of the writing youtuber people that I watch, where someone was saying that LLMs allow writers to bypass having to work out the prose to get to the plot. This defeats the purpose of writing, in my opinion. I have like no physical artist bone in my body, so it could be that I’m reacting in the same way as my artist friends do when they see AI art.

I’m not trying to start anything, but a lot of this description is kind of why I shied away from Berem (aside from losing all time to do anything outside of work, family, sleep).

No shade for anyone using AI in code; to be clear, I don’t know if that’s the case here. Also, I’m not even sure if they actually used AI in the setting writing, but it just hits 100% of all of the hallmarks described above, including the use of emojis.

And the text itself:

The Town’s Growth

Berem was carved from wild woods and stubborn fields. The founders built it where river met forest, shielded by cliffs and watched over by a shimmering lake. They poured their remaining magic and wealth into it: a stout Town Hall to govern, a Marketplace to trade, an Inn for wanderers, and a Temple so Berem’s spirit would be forever honored.

Word soon spread across Mystara’s Known World — not of a bustling metropolis, but of a place where young heroes could find their first footing. Here, a novice could earn coin protecting caravans, clearing nearby ruins, or rooting out trouble in the thick woods. Berem’s Tavern became famous for its worn quest board, where calloused hands posted cries for help — and new legends were born.

The town’s location remains a curiosity. Some maps mark Berem near Darokin, others whisper it lies close to the edges of the Five Shires, or in the misty borderlands beyond Karameikos. Berem itself cares little for such speculations. It belongs to the world, and to those bold enough to find it.
️ A Beacon for Adventurers

Berem today remains what it has always been:

• A starting point for wanderers, outcasts, and dreamers.
• A resting place for those who need healing or hope.
• A memorial to courage — not grand, but real.

Its harbor welcomes merchant ships. Its smithy forges the blades that will one day sing in distant halls. Its temple bells toll for the fallen and the triumphant alike. And every so often, beneath the light of the high tower’s beacon, a new band of adventurers sets forth — hearts full of hope, blades newly sharpened — carrying the spirit of Berem into the wide, wild world.

They say if you stand quietly at the town’s entrance when the mist rolls in, you might just hear Berem’s laughter on the breeze — urging you onward.

I’m not sure why I had such a visceral reaction to it. Generally speaking I don’t care if people use AI in code, and I will usually have a kind of ‘meh’ reaction to seeing AI art (especially the piss-filter images on the NPC pages on the Berem site), but the writing just took me entirely out of it.

If I had to guess, it’s because I can see my own motivations for using AI code or something to help facilitate a location where I can tell a specific story. If you use AI for everything altogether, then I wonder what the point of having a writing-based game is, or why you would create a unique location in a world at all. Berem is not, to my knowledge, part of the Mystara canon, so if you have an idea for a cool little adventurer town, why not write it up yourself? Idk. This also is likely not completely on topic, since most of the discussion is on AI in the real world rather than in our corner of it.

No one asked about this but one of the reasons why Luddites are so maligned as just anti-technology morons is because of pre-Marxist class struggle, which was won by the burgeoning industrialists and capitalists of the early Industrial Revolution period. Many of the luddites, as labsunlimited mentioned, were professionals who knew their craft well. Many of them had probably grown up being taught the craft by parents who had apprenticed them to other expert crafters, and had a great deal of generational knowledge about a specific handiwork. The Luddites weren’t protesting technology, they were protesting the development and financing of machines that created cheap, replaceable, and easily manufactured versions of handcrafted things. I think the main contingent were weavers, but I could be misremembering that. On one level, you could view it as bourgeoisie vs. petit bourgeoisie (industrialists/capitalists vs. small business owners), but many artisan crafters of the turn of the 19th century often lost their business due to cheaply manufactured goods and ended up working in those same factories. Or they wound up in poorhouses, I guess. In the US they probably just starved to death because we’ve always been who we are.

Engels talks a little bit about this in The Condition of the Working Class in England, which is a good historical reference regardless of one’s personal opinions on Marxism or socialism, as you can see elements of this same conflict between the advent of new machines to perform traditionally human labor in our current conversations about AI.

@Gashlycrumb how did you know about the method I used to grade papers when I was a TA?

@Pavel said in AI Megathread:

@somasatori said in AI Megathread:

People have recently assumed that I was using AI (not great for clinical writing) and thus everything is over-parenthized. Over-parenthesesed?

I’ve started using semicolons more in my notes:

Client reported improved sleep this week — though still experiencing early-morning waking when stressed.
vs
Client reported improved sleep this week; still experiencing early-morning waking when stressed.

This is honestly a great idea. I’m really thankful for the suggestion!

@Aria said in AI Megathread:

@Pavel said in AI Megathread:

@MisterBoring Either @Roz or @Aria explained… somewhere up in the higher reaches of this thread. I got a cramp trying to scroll that far.

I explained it here. Roz got mad that she didn’t know the dumb reason they’re called en dash and em dash.

it is admittedly a very dumb reason. It sounds like a reason that someone from Long Island would come up with

I have actually had to unlearn using em dashes because I would do it constantly. I use a lot of parentheses now when previously I would just be like – . People have recently assumed that I was using AI (not great for clinical writing) and thus everything is over-parenthized. Over-parenthesesed?

@Wuff said in Celebrities We've Lost 2025:

Shang Tsung himself, Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa

He was great in the Amazon “The Man in the High Castle” series

I did want to note that I have no issues with levity or characters being silly or humorous when the time calls for it. It can’t rain all the time, etc.

To me, it seemed like this particular person was really focused on playing a comic relief character as his whole shtick. This kind of comes down to fictional and cultural touchstones. Silent Heaven’s nearest cultural touchstones are Silent Hill and the TV series From. Both of those series have moments of humor (“It’s bread.”) The question here is: would either of those properties be improved if you had a character most likely to be played by French Stewart kicking around?

@SockMonkey said in Tough Calls:

I had someone pull off this ‘grand’ and ‘hilarious’ plot twist in a scene where their character was revealed to have a brain tumor so not only did that 1) Make all their actions ok it 2) Made my character and asshole for not instantly supporting them and me oocly an asshole for removing my char from the story and hook.

ugh, I’m sorry you had to deal with this. This is an awful, unnecessary, and annoying thing. How on earth is a brain tumor funny in any sense?

@Jumpscare said in Tough Calls:

I would prefer to play a dumb (likely brain damaged) and loud character who rushes headfirst into things, who is obnoxious and meant from a OOC perspective to be taken as a joke, while still having serious moments as it happens in rp. Is there a way for that to be okay?

ah yes, brain damage. what a laugh riot

also, I played on Silent Heaven for all of a couple weeks (much respect for it though), and yet I’m very certain that the vibe of the game isn’t “comedic levity”

If someone told me they got banned for asking for RP, I think my first question would be “what kind of RP were you asking for,” tbh. That said, I do sort of see why the person in @mietze’s example would get banned because that sounds hella disruptive. On one hand I can see the call to ask for RP, have someone agree and then getting cold feet, but it seems like this person was just engaging in a kind of whinging attention seeking based on the description.

My personal peeve these days, as an aside, is having basically zero free time to actually MUSH while actively engaging on a couple MUSH discords to keep up with some friends. I’m feeling this constant pull and still having ideas for characters.

@Pavel said in Warma-Sheen:

@hellfrog said in Warma-Sheen:

I just wanted to know what the mindset is that makes someone sock puppet on a new game instead of, idk, trying to rp.

While I obviously can’t speak to anyone’s inner world without having many a chat with them, I can speak to mine back when I did this kind of thing in my very, very, very younger days: I wanted to Be The Best. Probably from a lack of validation at home, I sought reinforcement and attention elsewhere, to that end I wanted to be the richest character, or the combattiest character, or the bestest starfighter pilot or whatever.

For a lot of (hell, probably most) folks, the first RP experience is the character they play and the second is the persona they’ve cultivated. In my youth in the hobby I was a borderline functional alcoholic hipster and would frequently overstate things and blow them out of proportion in a fake-bad kind of way, mostly for attention. Now 13 years sober, I definitely am very embarrassed about this, but it is what it is and I’ve largely tried to make amends where possible.

Anyway, likewise I can’t speak to the actual inner experience here outside of base speculation, but RPing is, for many, part of a larger power fantasy which can easily extend to one’s OOC presentation. Being respected IC can also be a very, let’s say maladaptive, stand-in for feeling respected OOC, which is probably what leads to most of the major crashouts we’ve seen in the hobby.

The hobby is more or less reliant on people being trustworthy actors within the scope of our OOC interactions, indicating that we’re trustworthy RP partners. Breaking that trust - by, for example, draining all of the resources out of your IC organization after being given a position of authority, or by breaking your word to someone in an OOC context or other similar betrayal - could lead to an attempt to manage or spin the situation so as to prevent being seen as untrustworthy. Whether the “significant other had my password” thing is real or not*^*, it’s important to take accountability and responsibility for those negative behaviors and, if unable to do so, identify why without resorting to blame.

I don’t recall Hollywood; I think they were very much after my tenure on TR, but based on this entire thread no one is particularly leaning on anything from TR being very problematic outside of the initial misidentification of Saulot; the focus is on recent behaviors rather than ones from 15 years ago.

^ Inner Soma’s reaction to using “real or not” here: