AI In Poses
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@somasatori said in AI In Poses:
Even the staunchest “LLMs reduce the mental load/writing barrier on the player to dig into the story” advocates have to admit that would be a useless future for the hobby.
No one has to admit anything and YOU CAN’T MAKE THEM!!!
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@Tez So you call yourself a role player? [smirk.jpg] Name all poses.
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@Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:
@Tez So you call yourself a role player? [smirk.jpg] Name all poses.
What’s your favorite pose? Oh, heh. Yeah, that was okay. I prefer the earlier @emits.
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@Yam said in AI In Poses:
Aight so we can’t use tools to check, and we can’t use our guts to check,
I’m not sure where you’re getting that from.
Some people think it’s perfectly fine to use the AI detectors.
Other people think it’s better to use your gut.
A third group of people prefer to use the detector to back up their gut.
You do you.
Personally I’m in the same camp as @KDraygo . If your vibe is off-putting to me, or I’m reasonably convinced you’re using AI, I’m not going to RP with you. I’m sure we’ll both survive.
When I spoke of “structural change”, it was in regards to education. There I think it’s a bit more complicated, but that’s kinda irrelevant from a gaming perspective.
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I feel like I need to be clearer about my perspective, since there are indeed some viewpoints presented here that are along the lines of not my monkeys, not my circus, I’m just the player, which I totally get. As a player, you might get disgruntled, you might feel betrayed, you might not care at all, you might be literally using it to pose right back. My thoughts on all of this has been through the lens of a gamerunner, and just like I feel that any gamerunner tolerating and attempting to talk down someone that misbehaves right off the bat, a gamerunner that tolerates the usage here does their playerbase a disservice. The gamerunner might be okay with assholish behavior, and the gamerunner might be okay with allowing folk to use LLMs, but I personally do not think that is healthy for a game.
I could be wrong about that. I’m not some gamerunning titan that has run many many public games to completion. But I do think tacit permittance would lead to friction. I guess in the same way that some people expect async as a baseline and some people don’t and then there’s some… fun tension.
I don’t actually know what a game would look like, if their policy is “AI is fine” or even “AI is not fine but we’re not going to chase you down”. My speculation, to be clear, is that it would not work out well.
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With the amount of time investment needed to get AIs these days to do absolutely anything right (see the other thread where I said AI is getting dumber), by the time you carefully cultivate an LLM to write a pose that actually makes sense within the context of the scene, before even making it fit your writing style, you might as well have just written it out yourself.
It’s one of those traps where it’s doing more work for a worse result because it’s been advertised as the opposite.
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@Hobbie I dunno about this. For RP it doesn’t need to make functional code, and most scenes don’t even involve enough heavy theme specifics for the AI to fail them. AI is okay at, and fast at, writing RP.
Is it great? No. Is it interesting? Not really. But it’s inoffensive for sure and it’s “good enough” for a lot of people. That’s why so many people are adamant on points like “It’s fine as long as it’s readable” and “I only used it to make my pose BETTER” and “AI is so good and so slick that if you’re such a super mega good writer you’ll get called AI by accident” and “It’s better than bar RP”
Code, it’s failing for sure. But for quick fictional scenario writing, it does get better every day, even though it’s still never going to be better than average. The issue with AI isn’t so much “it sucks major ass to read this, this is unintelligible” as it is “you’ve lied to me and cheated me out of the human connection/experience we were both supposed to opt into.”
That last part is the kicker to me, and I am comfortable banning players who are okay with that kind of cheating. I can’t thrive in the same game ecosystem as them, no matter how “good” the AI gets.
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@Hobbie said in AI In Poses:
With the amount of time investment needed to get AIs these days to do absolutely anything right (see the other thread where I said AI is getting dumber), by the time you carefully cultivate an LLM to write a pose that actually makes sense within the context of the scene, before even making it fit your writing style, you might as well have just written it out yourself.
We have to let this one go. It just is not representative of the experience today. I do not use these tools, but Copilot is installed on every Windows device now and it is trivially easy to try this yourself.
I gave it a desc @Tez wrote and asked it to make a new desc in the same style for a woman.
It used too many exact phrases from the original so I simply asked it to try again.
I gave it some basic instructions about how to pose and intro’d ‘my guy’.
I realized I needed to tell it not to write like a writer (we don’t powerpose) and I was in business.
From here on all I have to do is paste a scene partner’s poses and I could keep ‘Evelyn’ rattling away perpetually with responses coming back to me in 5 seconds.
Again, this took less than 10 minutes. We need to be aware of where these tools actually are.
he/him
this machine kills fascists -
@Ashkuri @Trashcan sometimes I really like being proven wrong, but this is not one of those days. Why ya gotta take me out of my imaginary fantasy world where AI is a fad that will disappear by itself?
JFC I thought it was still writing absolute slop but now it takes only ten minutes to train the damn thing to write passable poses? I’m sitting here very annoyed lol.
I don’t think using an AI to generate creative writing is worth the trade-off of contributing to AI’s eradication of jobs, the environment, creativity, reliable and accurate information etc.
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@Hobbie said in AI In Poses:
it takes only ten minutes to train the damn thing to write passable poses?
Sure, as long as you don’t mind when it can’t keep the details of Evelyn’s backstory straight, forgets that she has a fan in her hand from one pose to the next, doesn’t take into account how the scene she had last month would affect her dealings with Edward, etc. And heaven help you with theme consistency if the RP is happening in an original or lesser-known setting.
GenAI is good at generating plausible text - that’s literally its one job. It still isn’t very good at generating a coherent story.
I look at those example poses and they make me cringe. While I’d be reasonably confident they were AI-generated, to @Yam’s point about being a gamerunner, I don’t know that I’d be confident enough to ban somebody over it. And the AI generators aren’t trustworthy enough for me. (Some I tried insisted that some poses from 2001 had a better-than-average chance of being AI-generated, lol.)
I dunno. It sucks. I hate GenAI.
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@Faraday said in AI In Poses:
forgets that she has a fan in her hand from one pose to the next
yes, uh, damn that forgetful AI, ahem >.> <.<
I appreciate the pose examples because I wouldn’t have thought they would look like that. There’s still a vague sense of uncanny around a couple of the lines there, like
“the sort reserved for moments that amuse rather than unsettle”
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“the plain cut of a coat and the steady set of shoulders register in her mind as particulars to be filed away”
but it may be hard to recognize among a series of other poses if you were in a larger group scene.
"And the Fool says, pointing to the invertebrate fauna feeding in the graves: 'Here a monarchy reigns, mightier than you: His Majesty the Worm.'"
Italo Calvino, The Castle of Crossed Destines -
@Trashcan said in AI In Poses:
IDK how to feel about how closely the ‘great, now write a description’ prompt ended up eerily similar to the Age Old Nymeria Desc we’ve all read for ages and understood was bad and overwrought and that ended in one of the WORAs getting hosted in Malaysia.I guess in my heart of hearts I hope LLM was trained on it, over and over again.
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I really honestly would not be able to tell those poses were AI generated in a scene. There’s nothing in there that I haven’t written in some form or fashion, and certainly nothing I haven’t seen 10000 times in the 20+ years I’ve been doing this hobby. I wouldn’t even SUSPECT AI was used.
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@somasatori Or even if you do recognise those as “problems,” it reads more like the typical wannabe Wordsworth or Hemingway crap that I attempt whenever I get too big for my britches.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
BE AN ADULT -
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@Faraday said in AI In Poses:
can’t keep the details of Evelyn’s backstory straight, forgets that she has a fan in her hand from one pose to the next, doesn’t take into account how the scene she had last month would affect her dealings with Edward, etc. And heaven help you with theme consistency if the RP is happening in an original or lesser-known setting.
i have been an ai the entire time, guys
that’s why i do all these things
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@Pavel said in AI In Poses:
@somasatori Or even if you do recognise those as “problems,” it reads more like the typical wannabe Wordsworth or Hemingway crap that I attempt whenever I get too big for my britches.
Yeah exactly. When I ran some old “overdramatically wordsmithy” poses through the AI checkers, it flagged those too. I just question their methodology.
@Trashcan said in AI In Poses:
Not a huge sample size, of course, but I thought it was interesting.
That is interesting, thanks for sharing.
And look, even as a skeptic I’m not saying that the AI checkers don’t work at all. That’s clearly not the case. But I did find this interesting whitepaper from Originality.AI. A couple things that stood out to me:
- No single tool was the best in every study, and there was significant variance in tool performance across studies. This suggests that the effectiveness of these tools may vary greatly by how you’re using it. (which isn’t great if you want something reliable)
- Even the tool that’s claiming it’s the best only got a B+ in a couple of the studies. Maybe that’s good enough for some purposes, but it gives me pause.
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@Faraday
This white paper, published by Originality.ai, which concluded that Originality.ai is the best checker, includes 6 studies in the chart your screenshots come from. 2 of those are from 2023. The newest is from June 2024. Since the article is marked November 2025, I have to question why nothing newer is included.If there is any takeaway from what I’ve argued in these threads, it is that specifics matter and none of this is static. That is why opposition to GenAI cannot be based on the quality of the experience, it must be based on the nature of the experience. “I don’t want to RP with GenAI because it’s not very good” is not going to age well as a position.
he/him
this machine kills fascists -
@Trashcan said in AI In Poses:
“I don’t want to RP with GenAI because it’s not very good” is not going to age well as a position.
I think the better position is “I don’t want to RP with GenAI because I’m here to RP with real people.”
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@MisterBoring I agree. I think that’s the only position that matters.
Well, except maybe also ‘I don’t want to RP with AI, and it’s against the rules, so people using AI are breaking the rules, ban them.’
