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Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo
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@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@Pavel said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
I understand the ‘must have proof’ mindset, though. Sometimes (rarely, but still) bitches do lie. After all, this board was founded after people were falsely accused of something and punished without any sort of transparent investigation.
Yep.
Sometimes people lie.
Please show me the receipts where people have lied about being harassed. If this is such a prevalent problem, you should have no trouble producing them.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@Pavel said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
I understand the ‘must have proof’ mindset, though. Sometimes (rarely, but still) bitches do lie. After all, this board was founded after people were falsely accused of something and punished without any sort of transparent investigation.
Yep.
Sometimes people lie.
Yes. Sometimes people lie, and sex pests are almost always the ones benefiting from it. But go off about false claims, boo. This reeks of people saying that “women are just so hard to work with because everything is sexual harassment these days” like it’s, again, so SO difficult to NOT harass people when you don’t view them as objects.
And at the end of the day, if you’re reporting said behavior you’re already sharing your experience. Verifying it is a valid part of that, especially on a text medium.
Yes. This would have/should have happened when the behavior was reported. Obviously, we are past that. Do try to keep up.
ETA: But also, if you’re on a good game with a good community and good staffers, do those staffers a solid. Don’t put them in a position of having to trust one anonymous name on a screen over another anonymous name on a screen. You don’t really know them. They don’t really know you. There’s really no reason to blindly trust anyone. Make it as easy as possible for them to do the right thing.
This is the point of this whole thread. Staff knows, staff (I assume) was offered the logs and screenshots. Staff, which - again - INCLUDES this slime ball, couldn’t be bothered with the inconvenience of it. That is why this thread is here.
YOU are not obligated to see those logs and screenshots which identify the victims. No one on this forum is. If Cujo swept up in here with the mindset of “I cannot believe that people have been made to feel this way on my game, under my leadership. Let me see this evidence so that we can rectify this and put an action plan in place so that this doesn’t continue to happen. I am taking steps to educate myself on this clearly systemic and pervasive issue on the game I run.”
That is the opposite of what is happening. You have Hadrix and some desperate boot lockers doing everything to discredit this forum and those on it. And cujo is doing - oh, snap, what a surprise - absolutely nothing. Reminds me of - what again? Oh, right, reporting sexual assault in the real world. I hate to keep playing that card, but you know what sucks worse than hearing someone bring up their assault? Being assaulted, not being believed, and being actively punished for “ruining someone’s reputation” when you have text proof. Funny how that culture and mindset bleeds over.
People do not come here to air shit like this because they have a vendetta or love drama. They come here because they DID bring this to staff and staff made their priorities clear. Now it’s just whistleblowing so that people A) go into this game with a fair warning of what to expect, or B) avoid this game because this crosses, as it did mine, a moral boundary, or C) so that the public outrage can actually stir SOME sort of action from the spineless sycophants that are perpetuating and enabling this culture.
Option C isn’t going to happen. Clearly.
So, unless YOU are Cujo and you are coming to OP and victims with your hat in your hand, stop demanding “proof” and instead listen to what people - MULTIPLE PEOPLE - are saying. There is proof. You are not obligated to it. Sit down and listen, unless you are able to do something about this.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
How much worse would it be to have to experience harassment and also be swiftly booted from the game because the harasser false reported you first and was believed without question so that you got banned and couldn’t report him? No thanks.
oh my god, what a horrible hypothetical situation to imagine, surely it must happen all the time since we hear about it so often
Like. Dude. Even in just the ten years I’ve been on the various incarnations of this board, I could only count on one fucking hand the number of times we saw someone report a false report that wasn’t almost immediately dismissed with ridiculous ease because it was just the dumbass abuser themselves trying to cover their tracks.
This is such a non-problem versus the enormous issue of harassment in the community that it makes me actually angry people push so hard like this to make reporting and being believed so difficult. This is not a court of law and collecting this irrefutable body of evidence y’all always seem to want is literally the last thing on the mind of someone being stalked, abused, harassed, etc. It’s an enormously stressful and honestly embarrassing experience that can leave you too scattered, not to mention staffers like Cujo and the flying monkeys the abusers surround themselves with magically always seem to decide that it’s never enough anyway.
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HELLLOOOOO… Hellllloooooo… hellloooo.
Ah, what I thought, an echo chamber.
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There are no “receipts” that people accept in “our medium.”
Someone shows outside of the game communication? It’s always they shouldn’t have worn that dress and also unfair/not game related.
Someone shows a log? “The log was probably edited by someone with an axe to grind!” “Maybe you shouldn’t have been so sensitive. Gee, I would have been flattered and not taken that so seriously!” " Sometimes the person i could have seen as harassing me turned out to be a Nice Guy/Gal once I just talked to them a little more, so let’s give this awkward person a break and you should be more tolerant."
People take the information presented to them and make a decision. That’s always been the case. It’s just who tends to be “the most believable” is a little more diverse than it was during 90s mushing and a lot of “awkward” behavior is a lot less acceptable, and the culture has shifted away from rules lawyering about who “should” be asked to leave.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
HELLLOOOOO… Hellllloooooo… hellloooo.
Ah, what I thought, an echo chamber.
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Congrats, everyone! We have people joining just to toss around ambiguous JAQs and comments about echo chambers without making any concrete or direct refutes to the actual accusations, which means we’ve officially arrived as a MU* forum.
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Prove me wrong.
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@tsar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
HELLLOOOOO… Hellllloooooo… hellloooo.
Ah, what I thought, an echo chamber.
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@eddie ah yes, the irrefutable evidence of a dictionary screenshot and asking someone to prove the non-existence of a thing versus proving the existence.
no one is stopping you from posting, which i mean-- i’d think that’s a pretty good evidence there. but go off and do your karen thing here.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
Prove me wrong.
Prove you’re not just here to be an irritant about an extremely sensitive topic to a large portion of this community.
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So when given an opportunity to present facts, you choose ad hominem to attack the person with a different perspective rather than organizing a thought that might elevate your position in the discussion. Yes, classy indeed.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
Prove me wrong.
No. You don’t get to come in here today, from nowhere, hiding behind a veil of anonymity that hides the personal stake you clearly have in all this, and appoint yourself the sole arbiter of what are and are not the facts. If you want people to take you seriously, then behave like a serious person. If you want to bark commands like an imperious toddler, then carry on as you are, and I hope you enjoy getting treated like the infant you present yourself as.
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@eddie I hope this is earning you the brownie points you want with staff and this predatory creep! Good luck!
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The irony of commenting about how new I am to the site is also turning a blind eye to the fact that the original poster of these alleged circumstances is only ten days older than my account is. They came out of ‘no where’ placing themselves as the sole arbiter of what’s true and what is not.
I arrive, reading the disgusting commentary about people who are not here to defend themselves and pose a different perspective. However, I am the pariah for calling a spade a spade.
Even in a court of law, a victim must prove to a jury of their peers that they are innocent and the accused is guilty. A community is wrongfully passing judgment without seeing anything more than conjecture. Am I being an infant for asking for more than opinion, belief, or alleged conjecture? If there is wrong doing, how do we go about correcting the issue? That starts with defining the irrefutable facts.
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How do you propose that folks submit to this high burden of proof you’re demanding? Because logs are so easy to fake on most games.
A system like Ares means that I, as a player, can submit a verified log of what was said to the staff on a game, absolutely. I love that this option exists, as it makes it much harder for abusive people to lie about what they said.
But when staff are the abusers, or actively protecting the abuser, as is accused here, how the hell do you provide this verified proof, because the verification of the log comes from staff.
You can’t. Because admin will never just come out and say ‘Yeah, I’m protecting a sex pest.’
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@eddie this ain’t a court of law, playing on a game is not a right, and you ain’t defending any innocents, pardner
But also that’s not how a court of law works
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
The irony of commenting about how new I am to the site is also turning a blind eye to the fact that the original poster of these alleged circumstances is only ten days older than my account is. They came out of ‘no where’ placing themselves as the sole arbiter of what’s true and what is not.
I arrive, reading the disgusting commentary about people who are not here to defend themselves and pose a different perspective. However, I am the pariah for calling a spade a spade.
Even in a court of law, a victim must prove to a jury of their peers that they are innocent and the accused is guilty. A community is wrongfully passing judgment without seeing anything more than conjecture. Am I being an infant for asking for more than opinion, belief, or alleged conjecture? If there is wrong doing, how do we go about correcting the issue? That starts with defining the irrefutable facts.
So contradict the commentary if you can and share your perspective on the situation. Your first comment was attacking the entire thread. It’s a little disingenuous to follow that up by expecting that no one be defensive toward you.
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Correct, but I am also a person of principle who takes issue with the victimizing of individuals who are not in a capacity to defend themselves until proven innocent. I am all for protecting victims, but not at the cost of creating more victims to satiate the blood thirst of popular opinion and conjecture. People want justice, and the only way to deliver that is by proving without a doubt you are right and they are wrong. What’s the old saying? Perception is reality (I hate that saying personally), but it applies in most cases until more context and information is provided.
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@eddie those people are welcome to come here and post.
it’s free to post here.
no one is ‘incapable of defending themselves’ here.
