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Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo
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@sao “But how do we know bitches ain’t lying” and then in x amount of years once it’s no longer cool or socially acceptable to support that person? “Damn them, if only we had known what they were really like!”
Seems to be how this shit goes, yeah. It’s fucking exhausting.
ETA: I realized I wanted to say something positive.
This, right here, all of us coming together defending victims, refuting insistence that receipts be necessary and explaining why in cases like this they are absolutely not necessary? It gives me hope that, if nothing else, victims will feel confident to speak up and know they can find support here, if even if they can’t on the MU they play.
And that’s not nothing!
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I can raise my hand and say in the time I played on AOA, the sex problems were real.
Cujo seemed enthusiastic as an admin, but I was disappointed as there’s a family that runs some kind of merc faction there (or did when I played there) Greystorm I think, something like that? One of the players that was a lead there had some real manipulative things going. I’m surprised she wasn’t kicked, but she also was deeply involved in running rp stuff. So I think she’s still there today.
The whole thing where the admin just says this stuff on the channel couldn’t be more blatant though.
Honestly - this reminds me of when Shangrila melted down. The admin Sloth had been accused of breaking the rules, getting involved with his staff alt, etc. People were coming forward, and it was found to be valid and they booted him. Before they did he was posting things that sounded just like him. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same person.
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@Pyrephox said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
If you get a lot of unrelated people not under the power of the accused saying, “That doesn’t match my experience at all with this person, and I just don’t see it,” then I’m skeptical.
Please be very careful with that thinking. MU*ing is a small community. And there are abusers who are very good at hiding, very good at insinuating themselves in with other people in power, very good at picking victims, and good at making sure you become abundantly aware that there will be consequences if you speak up. Whether those consequences are real or not, the fear of them often makes victims stay silent.
Those abusers are also typically really good at making sure they only show their bad side to their victims and do everything they can to discredit those victims so that their friends will speak up in their defense.
To use an IRL example that could be triggering to some but I cannot find a spoiler tag so please feel free to skip to the next post:
I have an ex that is as good as gold to everyone around him. He’s kind, he’s generous to a fault. He speaks respectfully to his elders, holds open doors for women whether he’s interested in them or not, everyone gets ‘yessir’ or ‘yessum’. He’s the guy other guys, and plenty of girls who haven’t dated him, point at and say ‘see, nice guys really exist!’.
When you’re first dating him, you’re his princess. And he picks girls who aren’t used to that treatment, who don’t have a lot of friends, and does everything he can to get them used to it, to make it clear how no one else will ever do as much for them, will ever make them feel so special.
And then once he thinks you’re well and truly hooked, and you’re in a situation where you’re financially and emotionally dependent on him? Well. I’m pleased to say I saw where it was going before it got too bad.
But even still, none of his exes have spoken up in any sort of public way. Because to the people he doesn’t want to date, he’s as good as gold, and they defend him rabidly. And they’re everywhere within the small community he lives in, so even if you’re not under his power, you’re under his power and it’s better to either fall silent or get the hell out of town than to deal with people treating you like shit because you spoke out about their golden boy.
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@sao said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
same idiotic “but how do we know bitches ain’t lying” that happens every single fucking time.
It’s especially galling when the answer is “@set them suspect for a few days, then read your logs.” Which is essentially “do your damned job.”
I understand the ‘must have proof’ mindset, though. Sometimes (rarely, but still) bitches do lie. After all, this board was founded after people were falsely accused of something and punished without any sort of transparent investigation.
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This was the game that put me off MUing entirely in 2021. Feels like it was earlier than that. But that there is active creeping and abuse doesn’t suprise me along with the near homicidal Mandalorian fetish they have there. Cliquish to the point that they’d try and kill your character if you didn’t put a bucket on your head and join the clan.
I did quit Star Wars Republic when a known creeper had me under radar. The same one that got/kept getting banned from NOLA2 made a joke during a Jedi Training session about taking my character’s stunned unconscious body to his room. Used variations of Kaydin, Caden.
After all that I feel like I dodged a bullet.
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@Pavel said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
I understand the ‘must have proof’ mindset, though. Sometimes (rarely, but still) bitches do lie. After all, this board was founded after people were falsely accused of something and punished without any sort of transparent investigation.
Yep.
Sometimes people lie.
If everyone could just trust everyone else to be good, upstanding citizens of the community, this wouldn’t be a discussion in the first place. The medium used in this hobby makes it overwhelmingly, exceptionally, infinitely easy to verify your experiences. To ignore that in favor of blind trust of everyone at all times is unnecessarily short-sighted.
It is bad enough to have to experience a sex pest on a game. How much worse would it be to have to experience harassment and also be swiftly booted from the game because the harasser false reported you first and was believed without question so that you got banned and couldn’t report him? No thanks.
And at the end of the day, if you’re reporting said behavior you’re already sharing your experience. Verifying it is a valid part of that, especially on a text medium.
Is it ideal to have to go through that? No, but none of this situation is ideal.
ETA: But also, if you’re on a good game with a good community and good staffers, do those staffers a solid. Don’t put them in a position of having to trust one anonymous name on a screen over another anonymous name on a screen. You don’t really know them. They don’t really know you. There’s really no reason to blindly trust anyone. Make it as easy as possible for them to do the right thing.
If the staffer is bad, your report, verified or not, probably won’t do anything anyway (see this thread). If the staffer is good, then have their back so they can have yours.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@Pavel said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
I understand the ‘must have proof’ mindset, though. Sometimes (rarely, but still) bitches do lie. After all, this board was founded after people were falsely accused of something and punished without any sort of transparent investigation.
Yep.
Sometimes people lie.
Please show me the receipts where people have lied about being harassed. If this is such a prevalent problem, you should have no trouble producing them.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@Pavel said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
I understand the ‘must have proof’ mindset, though. Sometimes (rarely, but still) bitches do lie. After all, this board was founded after people were falsely accused of something and punished without any sort of transparent investigation.
Yep.
Sometimes people lie.
Yes. Sometimes people lie, and sex pests are almost always the ones benefiting from it. But go off about false claims, boo. This reeks of people saying that “women are just so hard to work with because everything is sexual harassment these days” like it’s, again, so SO difficult to NOT harass people when you don’t view them as objects.
And at the end of the day, if you’re reporting said behavior you’re already sharing your experience. Verifying it is a valid part of that, especially on a text medium.
Yes. This would have/should have happened when the behavior was reported. Obviously, we are past that. Do try to keep up.
ETA: But also, if you’re on a good game with a good community and good staffers, do those staffers a solid. Don’t put them in a position of having to trust one anonymous name on a screen over another anonymous name on a screen. You don’t really know them. They don’t really know you. There’s really no reason to blindly trust anyone. Make it as easy as possible for them to do the right thing.
This is the point of this whole thread. Staff knows, staff (I assume) was offered the logs and screenshots. Staff, which - again - INCLUDES this slime ball, couldn’t be bothered with the inconvenience of it. That is why this thread is here.
YOU are not obligated to see those logs and screenshots which identify the victims. No one on this forum is. If Cujo swept up in here with the mindset of “I cannot believe that people have been made to feel this way on my game, under my leadership. Let me see this evidence so that we can rectify this and put an action plan in place so that this doesn’t continue to happen. I am taking steps to educate myself on this clearly systemic and pervasive issue on the game I run.”
That is the opposite of what is happening. You have Hadrix and some desperate boot lockers doing everything to discredit this forum and those on it. And cujo is doing - oh, snap, what a surprise - absolutely nothing. Reminds me of - what again? Oh, right, reporting sexual assault in the real world. I hate to keep playing that card, but you know what sucks worse than hearing someone bring up their assault? Being assaulted, not being believed, and being actively punished for “ruining someone’s reputation” when you have text proof. Funny how that culture and mindset bleeds over.
People do not come here to air shit like this because they have a vendetta or love drama. They come here because they DID bring this to staff and staff made their priorities clear. Now it’s just whistleblowing so that people A) go into this game with a fair warning of what to expect, or B) avoid this game because this crosses, as it did mine, a moral boundary, or C) so that the public outrage can actually stir SOME sort of action from the spineless sycophants that are perpetuating and enabling this culture.
Option C isn’t going to happen. Clearly.
So, unless YOU are Cujo and you are coming to OP and victims with your hat in your hand, stop demanding “proof” and instead listen to what people - MULTIPLE PEOPLE - are saying. There is proof. You are not obligated to it. Sit down and listen, unless you are able to do something about this.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
How much worse would it be to have to experience harassment and also be swiftly booted from the game because the harasser false reported you first and was believed without question so that you got banned and couldn’t report him? No thanks.
oh my god, what a horrible hypothetical situation to imagine, surely it must happen all the time since we hear about it so often
Like. Dude. Even in just the ten years I’ve been on the various incarnations of this board, I could only count on one fucking hand the number of times we saw someone report a false report that wasn’t almost immediately dismissed with ridiculous ease because it was just the dumbass abuser themselves trying to cover their tracks.
This is such a non-problem versus the enormous issue of harassment in the community that it makes me actually angry people push so hard like this to make reporting and being believed so difficult. This is not a court of law and collecting this irrefutable body of evidence y’all always seem to want is literally the last thing on the mind of someone being stalked, abused, harassed, etc. It’s an enormously stressful and honestly embarrassing experience that can leave you too scattered, not to mention staffers like Cujo and the flying monkeys the abusers surround themselves with magically always seem to decide that it’s never enough anyway.
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HELLLOOOOO… Hellllloooooo… hellloooo.
Ah, what I thought, an echo chamber.
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There are no “receipts” that people accept in “our medium.”
Someone shows outside of the game communication? It’s always they shouldn’t have worn that dress and also unfair/not game related.
Someone shows a log? “The log was probably edited by someone with an axe to grind!” “Maybe you shouldn’t have been so sensitive. Gee, I would have been flattered and not taken that so seriously!” " Sometimes the person i could have seen as harassing me turned out to be a Nice Guy/Gal once I just talked to them a little more, so let’s give this awkward person a break and you should be more tolerant."
People take the information presented to them and make a decision. That’s always been the case. It’s just who tends to be “the most believable” is a little more diverse than it was during 90s mushing and a lot of “awkward” behavior is a lot less acceptable, and the culture has shifted away from rules lawyering about who “should” be asked to leave.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
HELLLOOOOO… Hellllloooooo… hellloooo.
Ah, what I thought, an echo chamber.
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Congrats, everyone! We have people joining just to toss around ambiguous JAQs and comments about echo chambers without making any concrete or direct refutes to the actual accusations, which means we’ve officially arrived as a MU* forum.
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Prove me wrong.
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@tsar said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
HELLLOOOOO… Hellllloooooo… hellloooo.
Ah, what I thought, an echo chamber.
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@eddie ah yes, the irrefutable evidence of a dictionary screenshot and asking someone to prove the non-existence of a thing versus proving the existence.
no one is stopping you from posting, which i mean-- i’d think that’s a pretty good evidence there. but go off and do your karen thing here.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
Prove me wrong.
Prove you’re not just here to be an irritant about an extremely sensitive topic to a large portion of this community.
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So when given an opportunity to present facts, you choose ad hominem to attack the person with a different perspective rather than organizing a thought that might elevate your position in the discussion. Yes, classy indeed.
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@eddie said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
Prove me wrong.
No. You don’t get to come in here today, from nowhere, hiding behind a veil of anonymity that hides the personal stake you clearly have in all this, and appoint yourself the sole arbiter of what are and are not the facts. If you want people to take you seriously, then behave like a serious person. If you want to bark commands like an imperious toddler, then carry on as you are, and I hope you enjoy getting treated like the infant you present yourself as.
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@eddie I hope this is earning you the brownie points you want with staff and this predatory creep! Good luck!
